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Posted By: Admin A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 01:57 AM
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Here is one that got just a little hot!

- Jwww
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Posted By: Big Jim Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 04:44 AM
Did that second double breaker develop a pole to pole short? It looks pretty crispy and not a lot of other damage except smoke
Posted By: NORCAL Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 05:17 AM
What is the story behind it?
Posted By: e57 Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 07:50 AM
Looks like the lower set of breaker buss-work shorted with no trip of the 2-pole feeding it, and/or the main feeding this panel.

Oh wait, is that the main panel? (Notice the bare AL ground on the neutral bar.)

Took the hit till it blew open!
Posted By: Trumpy Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 07:51 AM
I'd hazard a guess and say that this has been a sustained fault (Overloaded Circuit+ Faulty Breaker?), judging by the colour on the inside of the panel.
It's strange how the Neutral/Ground Busbars are still silver?. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Trainwire Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 12:13 PM
hmm looks to me like an old FP with no main.

They used the 6 moves of the hand rule and tied the two pole breakers direct to incoming. with one of the two polebreakers feeding the lighting loads. The breaker labeled "main" just shut off the lighting loads.

I'll bet one fried chicken TV dinner that the lower left DP breaker had the contacts arcing and get hot enough to burn the housing. No overload, no short.

The FP fuse panel in my house did the same thing. Dryer fuse got hot enough in normal use that I had to use gloves to pull it.

These people are fortunate that it didn't take the house with it.
TW
Posted By: Jwww Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 12:26 PM
Yes it was the second breaker that developed a short. the wild thing is that it was a 30 amp breaker on the water heater which was wired with 12/2, and there was nothing else burnt on the wiring.
Posted By: rad74ss Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 01:34 PM
This reminds me of a gas furnace at a place I used to work at. It heated the paint booth. Every day it had to be re-lit by hand. I told my supervisor that it needed to be tagged out because it was electric ignition and it was going to blow up if it didn't get fixed.

It was winter so I was told to go re-light it and they would get somebody to look at it. I walk out there with a little propane hand torch since it was to windy for matches, open up the door (the furnace cover plate had been left off by the previous lighter), and lo and behold the panel is black. There was no insulation on any of the wires and little puddles of yellow and red wire nut plastic on the bottom.

I stepped outside and turned off the main and the gas and told the painters they were going to have to suck up the cold for a long time now!

It amazes me how this kind of problem doesn't burn houses down. How could they de-energize that panel?
Posted By: mamills Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 04:14 PM
This event makes a good case for keeping panel doors closed - this one obviously wasn't, as evidenced by the clean condition of the label. It's a good thing that this fault either burned itself clear, or something opened ahead of it. Does a main disconnect exist ahead of this panel?

Mike (mamills)
Posted By: Trumpy Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 04:30 PM
Mike,
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This event makes a good case for keeping panel doors closed - this one obviously wasn't, as evidenced by the clean condition of the label.
Now there is a thinking man!
Good call mate. [Linked Image]
Posted By: velect Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 05:40 PM
That is a Murray, Bryant or Arrow Hart panel not a FP.

Whoever ran the new pair of 12/2 romex (yellow in color) should have check some of the connections when he had the panel open.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 05:51 PM
This looks like a breaker to buss connection problem or a contact problem within the breaker.
Don
Posted By: Dave55 Re: A Little Burnt - 10/12/04 08:14 PM
Nice pictures, Jwww.

I'm not familiar with these panels, but it appears from the second picture to be a main lug panel where the top portion is used for 240-volt circuits, and the lower right breaker is feeding the bottom half of the panel for the 120-volt loads.

This reminds me of the comments made by harold endean in the General Discussion section. The thread is "arrangement of breakers" and he comments on the overheating of the buss with large loads sharing the buss. Here we have what looks like a "main" breaker feeding the lower half of the panel with a water heater breaker sharing the buss.

Dave
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: A Little Burnt - 10/14/04 01:26 AM
Am I the only one that notics the unsupported cheap plastic outlet box in the lower left hand corner? Also, are all of those wires hot, or did the paint crew come in? [Linked Image] (SARCASTIC!!)
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