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Posted By: Admin Daisy Chaining? - 01/18/04 07:09 AM
[Linked Image]
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Question: Is this permitted?

Can I daisy chain these together and are they suitable for use as extension cords?

-Anonymous
(submitted via Joe Tedesco)
Posted By: electure Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/18/04 02:59 PM
The UL White Book lists these gizmos as "Relocatable Power Taps (XBYS)"

They are intended to plug "directly into a permanently installed branch circuit receptacle"
They are "not intended to be series connected (daisy chained) to other relocatable power taps or extension cords."
Additionally, the aren't to be permanently attached to anything (workbench, desk, etc), and can't be used on construction sites (although I sure see lots of them used on sites for battery chargers, big dumb radios, and the like).

Thanks to Joe, and ECN, we've all got easy access to this kind of info. I never would have dreamed of finding something like this in the past. Pay attention, it pays...S

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 01-18-2004).]
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/18/04 03:31 PM
I think this a very good topic.

I often run into a prediciment when doing business license inspections. People will have extension cords all over the place and I turn them down. Usually I come back and see (1) power strip installed to resolve the issue. I'm happy.

The problem is when they do what is pictured above. When the alternative is to supply additional receptacles at a cost that may not be an option to the small business owner, is this really that big of a problem?
Posted By: NJwirenut Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/18/04 04:03 PM
"Additionally, the aren't to be permanently attached to anything (workbench, desk, etc)"

I wonder why most of them have mounting holes on them then?
Posted By: Norwester Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/18/04 04:45 PM
Always a bit sad to see something like this. The things people will do to avoid coughing up the dollars for those extra outlets.
I suppose on the plus side at least some of them now have over current or thermal trips built into them..... [Linked Image]

Not sure what the regs are on them down here.

ciao
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/18/04 08:30 PM
Thanks for the kind words Scott:

Just to make it clearer concerning your remarks here is the link that will get the UL "White" Book onto you machine.

You will need Acrobat Reader:

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Here is a publication that includes many of the answers to questions related to the use of electrical equipment.

I offer it for your use and review when certain product issues arise.

Keep in mind that it is revised every year, but does not change drastically only to include new materials, or revisions or even deletions of information:


Download here:
http://joetedesco.com/2003geninfo.pdf

Question: Are pump assemblies and controls for use in pumping sewage considered as hazardous (classified) locations, even on residential properties?
Posted By: sabrown Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/20/04 01:48 PM
Ryan,
Yes it is that big of a problem.

It seems to be wide spread with the worst I've seen being under a computer room floor where two were daisy chained into a third, this third one daisey chained with a forth one into a fifth which finally went into the wall.

Lastly, the wiring and the standard they are built to are for small amperage loads connected to each receptacle. Daisy chaining them concentrates the loading to one receptacle which is not designed for the concentrated load. The device as a whole is often protected against over current; but each receptacle is not, being considered a tap.

We have had reports of fires with these of the surge protector type when daisy chained, though I do not know the details.

Shane
Posted By: Admin Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/22/04 08:50 PM
Another photo, same source:

[Linked Image]
Posted By: DougW Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/23/04 01:10 AM
[smart aleck]Of course, the question comes up... [Linked Image]

If they plugged load strip 'A' into load strip 'B', and then plugged load strip 'B' into load strip 'A', what would the voltage drop be? [Linked Image]

[/smart aleck]
Posted By: wa2ise Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/23/04 01:21 AM
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the wiring and the standard they are built to are for small amperage loads connected to each receptacle. Daisy chaining them concentrates the loading to one receptacle which is not designed for the concentrated load. The device as a whole is often protected against over current; but each receptacle is not, being considered a tap.
Suppose someone plugs in a kilowatt space heater in one of the outlets, and nothing in the others. Its circuit breaker would allow the current, but would the individual outlet be overloaded? Essentially the strip closest to the power source in a daisy chain would see a similar effect, lots of cuurrent in one outlet, light loading on the others. I would avoid daisy chaining because of all the voltage drop losses incurred from all those outlet/plug connections. Similar to those office cubicle wiring systems with all the jumpers and sockets. We had one burn badly out years ago. The company had an electrician replace all that with a new conduit system attached to the cubicle walls.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/23/04 12:54 PM
That second photo appears to be British plugs and extension strips, and is an all too familiar sight!
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/23/04 03:41 PM
Yeah, it's a familiar sight allright. Looks like my workbench and the spouse's computer desk....

OK, which one of you weisen-heimers broke into my flat to take that shot? [Linked Image]

************************

Wonder what role the TV antenna cable and splitter are playing in this picture....was this picture taken behind a home hi-fi rack system?

And then I see something that looks like a telephone box....on the wall.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-23-2004).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/24/04 11:17 AM
Yes, that's a standard BT telephone outlet on the wall with a line disappearing somewhere into the tangle of wires.

It looks like a multi-way adapter and phone cord connected at the left-hand end of the white extension strip as well. It's probably one of those surge-suppressor strips that incorporate a telephone feed through.
Posted By: Admin Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/26/04 12:16 AM
[Linked Image]
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And this is what the end result will usually be when the loads are excessive!

Burned Up
(submitted via Joe Tedesco)
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/26/04 02:34 AM
Hol-eee geez.... How'd you (or the person who made this shot) cause this to happen?

What was plugged into it and shouldn't the fuse or -- now more commonly -- circuit breaker normally built into these things have popped and cut the current flow?

I thought these things were supposed to be made out of a type of plastic that didn't burn......

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-25-2004).]
Posted By: electure Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/26/04 12:55 PM
Is (was) that foil looking stuff some kind of shielding?
I guess I'll have to smash up one of these things to see what's inside...destructive testing is a "forte" of mine [Linked Image]...S
Posted By: wa2ise Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/27/04 02:30 AM
Holy Shiite! Anyway, I've had these things apart, and there's no conductive shielding or anything other than cheap plastic inside. Aside from some brass rails that form the outlet contacts.
Posted By: :andy: Re: Daisy Chaining? - 01/30/04 11:05 PM
i've seen a similar picture, where the fire was causes by a bad quality varistor (overvoltage/surge protection) that leaked internal insulation and got hot.
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