ECN Forum
Posted By: Admin Panelboard in the Shower? - 11/11/00 12:26 AM
<p align="center"><img border="0" src="https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Violations/Submissions/shower&panel550.jpg">


This was reported to me by an electrician who was in
the process of a complete rewire of this house. He has since relocated the
panel to an outside wall. This location was in a shower/tub area, as seen
by the shower curtain. I have no idea how long this was in this location.
<p align="center">Photo Submitted by:  Mr. Rick Miell

Otero County Electrical Inspector  La Junta, Colorado 

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 04-11-2003).]
Posted By: ns Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 11/13/00 06:47 PM
The house I moved in last year, had the shower stall located next to the electrical panel (the only separation was a sliding mirror doors), a similar situation like this.
Upon a closer inspection, the panel was NEW, and probably was replaced within 2 years. Some original hardware pieces left behind were rusted, to tell you about the state of the old panel after repeated exposure to humidity.
Needless to say, we opted to renovate the bathroom and separate the 2 'entities' by a solid wall.
The shower stall, which was defined by the renovation contractor as a Sunday job, had other electrical problems (like a light switch too close to the shower stall, etc).
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 11/14/00 12:15 AM
ns,

I agree that switches and other Electrical devices do not belong where they can be reached from the shower or tub. I make every effort to keep them as far away as I can.

But ... according to the NEC as long as the switch is not located within the limits of the shower stall - there is no distance-from requirement. There is not even a GFCI protection rule for this switch. If it was a Hot Tub, Spa or pool it would be very different though (- it must not be closer than 5 feet). [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 12/20/00 11:36 PM
Rick, you've got me pawing thru the books here....I see 240-24-e was new in '93, so does that mean if a proper NEMA rated panel were installed in a shower before that code cycle it would have been compliant?
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 12/21/00 01:05 AM
I was kinda thinking along the same lines, but I was wondering what if it wasn't a Bathroom? Is a room with a Tub or shower automatically a Bathroom? According to the Definition there must also be a Sink (Basin)
Posted By: Scott35 Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 12/21/00 02:40 AM
That was in a shower?!! And people actually got in there and BATHED ?!! Turning on water and splashing it all about??!! HOLY CATS!!!
You would have to point a missile with a Nuke war head at me to get me in that shower!!

This must have been the most intense thrill-seekers/stunt persons' house in the history of man kind!! [Linked Image]

I thought I saw a lot of crazy stuff, but man! some of the photos you guys get have me cringing! shocked [Linked Image]

I couldn't even begin to imagine the stuff you Inspectors and Electricians that are involved in Residential Remodels must see!!... Scarry!

With all that aside, what would you say is a fair percentage of jobs that you feel are done above standard, or impressively done to you? [Inspectors and Electricians both].
Jobs where the EC has done neat work, if any correction is written or needed, it would be a small thing only.

Scott
Posted By: sparky Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 12/21/00 10:24 PM
Bill....you have a point, this could be somewhat of a loophole here, by definition it would seem that an appropriately rated/ listed panel could theoretically be in a shower stall. They do exist in worst environments....myself I really would appreciate a panel-free shower at the day's end.
Scott, in my experience, there are "neat" jobs that look really good, and there are "compliant" jobs in which the installer meets , or exceeds code. Most sparky's like to energize the combination of the two and sleep good.
Posted By: LNP&S Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 12/29/00 11:09 AM
It's a little hard to tell from the photo if the panel is actually located inside the shower of if the picture was taken from inside the tub/shower looking out. The caption does say tub/shower area. Neither would be my choice of location but it would seem a little saner (assuming the panel is properly installed and grounded)if it is actually outside the tub/shower unit. Still a big issue with moisture.


[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 12-29-2000).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 12/30/00 01:48 AM
LNP,

(I had the picture taken out of your post to quicken load time)
Rick said that the panel was indeed in the shower!
Posted By: Steinke Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 01/11/01 07:50 PM
I have had much experience in industry with similar locations. Here are a few tips: -NEMA doesn't rate for condensation. A NEMA-1 box is preferable to an undrained NEMA-3 or -4(hosetight) box, as the condensation WILL accumulate. I've seen boxes with over an inch of condensate in them. -Water will also enter conduit and condense, and settle, in low spots. THHN is not suitable for these wet locations. -Corrosion of terminals and connections can be prevented with NOALOX. Commercial anti-seize is often used, but is not technically listed for this use; Noalox is. Apply the Noalox also to conduit fittings, etc., to prevent their rusting-up as well. -Finally, this application is not as scary as it looks. Not only does water have a place to drain, but it is typical in Europe for the 220V water heater to be hung within the shower enclosure. While I wouldn't have a panel inside a shower, I also know that panels are often placed in industrial areas that are even wetter, and more subject to condensation and corrosion!
Posted By: gto6t7 Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 01/12/01 11:55 PM
I just said to my wife, as she was passing by, look at this picture. She said "oh my god thats awfull, what were they thinking when they put a window in the shower." We all see things diffrently.

Dave T.
Posted By: spkjpr Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 01/19/01 11:33 PM
I showed the picture to my 17 y.o. daughter and she said, " that's in the shower! Isn't that rather stupid and dangerous!" She doesn't know the NEC but even she knew that was a bad place for the panel.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 01/19/01 11:45 PM
[Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 01/20/01 12:17 PM
Being that I only do electrical work, I usually do not speak out of my trade. Like many tradesmen, I work with the other trades often. I will say that if it's outta my trade and looks funny, it probably is.

These observations are even more pronounced when the general public is questioning an application. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Merritt Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 04/07/01 02:40 AM
looks to me like its one of those infamous Sylvania/GTE "Exploding/meltdown" Panels...

talk about un-safe.. you tell the people you hate to take showers in there.. lol

-m
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/06/03 01:55 AM
Just thumbing through some earlier photos and came across this one.

It's an Oldie but a Goodie!

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: rat4spd Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/06/03 03:07 AM
When I got my house, the 240 for the dryer ran through the shower stall right next to the water pipe; in one side along the back wall and out the other. That didn't stay long.
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/15/03 03:08 AM
This type of installation is great for generating future work for, medical techs,doctors, nurses, the morgue, funeral homes,cemetaries. They all have to work too, don't they?

Pierre
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/15/03 03:14 AM
BTW- Service disconnects cannot be located in bathrooms of any location, but subpanels can be located in bathrooms of other than dwellings, guest rooms of hotels or motels.

Pierre
Posted By: David UK Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/15/03 09:52 AM
To British eyes this installation is beyond belief.
I don't think even the worst d.i.y.er here would allow a panel to be fitted/remain in or adjacent to the shower enclosure.
We have very stict rules (BS 7671 Section 601) on locations containing a bath or shower. Not that they are always followed to the letter, particularly by d.i.y. sparks.
However, most homeowners are well aware that standard 13A socket outlets (receptacles) & consumer units (panels) are not permitted to be installed in bathrooms. Also installing wall mounted light switches in bathrooms is very restricted, usually ceiling pull cord switches are used or a wall switch is mounted outside the bathroom door.

[This message has been edited by David UK (edited 06-15-2003).]
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/15/03 03:50 PM
Way out west, customs are a little different when it comes to spas. We realize that variable levels of underwater “mood lighting” and invigorating jet-pump streams are an integral part of the total spa experience.

Not shown is the important bamboo-handled loofa brush that serves double duty. Besides ritual exfoliation, the natural organically insulated brush handle also serves to safety operate the spa-side circuit breakers for the lighting and pumps—so very essential to truly effective relaxation during a dip.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 06-15-2003).]
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/15/03 04:11 PM
Loofa aside, an advance in 1990 was Hughes Aircraft’s "Clapper II+" pump and lighting control.

The Jet Propulsion Laboratory is currenty in development of a NEMA-4X chlorine-submersible TiVo/spa remote control, made entirely from recycled polyethylene terephthalate Evian-Water bottles.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/16/03 06:31 AM
David,
You're quite right there.
Over in NZ, you are not even allowed to install a switchboard in the same wall as a bathroom, even, if the b/room is on the other side of the wall!.
Or above a stove.
Never seen anything this bad before!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/17/03 12:17 AM
Who put that shower in, right next to that panel? [Linked Image]

Hey, having that window right there is not the safest thing in the world either...if the window is left open during a storm, RAIN might come in!
Posted By: John Steinke Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 06/25/03 01:41 AM
Once again, I'd like to point out that there is NO NEMA enclosure that is tested for resisting condensation. Those who deal with panels in industrial locations that are subject to condensation have a variety of methods to reduce their very active maintenance requirements!
Posted By: mlk682 Re: Panelboard in the Shower? - 08/02/03 01:45 PM
It looks to me that that shower curtain is not rated for this application [Linked Image]
© ECN Electrical Forums