but it's a siemans breaker...it's gotta work in the panel...

Buss looks nicely overheated around those screws...

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work".

Come to think of it... I've noticed the hospital electricians seemed to be slippin over here too.... Lots of missing cover plates, a ground pin busted off in an outlet (likely the janitor ) GFCI's with the reset buttons looking like someone tried to reset them with an icepick...


I think I remember reading someplace on here about an EC that was doing a renov on a hospital and had hooked 480V (!) to a cheapo NEMA 5-15 outlet... the clowns left it installed after they'd finished and a janitor plugged his vacuum into it and received some pretty nasty burns as the whole works exploded!

Whats SUPPOSED to be in that panel breaker wise??? Looks like something that would be common and readily availible to me like a Cutler, G.E or Westinghouse perhaps?...

A.D

That maker - is it Cutler-Hammer?- makes two kinds of "bolt in" breakers. The more common sort has the bolt-in tab exiting from the usual place (bottom corner); this piece has a ben in it.
The breaker shown is, I believe, an older style, which has the busses raised, so the tabs you see actually contact them.

I've used both types here, but either is so rare all I can be sure of is that they're not "Square D" .

The breaker is an ITE.
The screws are screwed into the wrong hole on the bus to boot! Those holes are for the left column of breakers.

I think the panel is GE

GE panel 42 breaker 225A frame. Uses THQB breakers, this one actually a 2p/50A type BQ. Contractor thought it would be a great idea to hack it up and install it as you see here. I guess 40 bucks (for a new breaker) is much too expensive for the country's biggest HMO.

From what I gather, at one time it was used to feed a compact welder.

More to come....

[This message has been edited by kcselectrician (edited 12-14-2006).]

[This message has been edited by kcselectrician (edited 12-15-2006).]

That Breaker (Siemens BQ) is what's known as a "Feed-Thru" or "Lug-In/Lug-Out" type Breaker.

It's typically used for Tapped Circuits on Buss Duct, Switches in MCCs, and when an Enclosed Circuit Breaker type Switch is used (like for a Disconnecting Means).

As far as I know ("AFAIK"), they are not intended to be used in Panelboards, as they do not line up correctly on the Buss kit (proof being provided by the image above).

The Siemens "BQ" Series Breaker, is sometimes mistaken for the Siemens "BL" Series, which IS a Panelboard type Bolt-On Breaker.

If anyone ever has to add Branch Circuit Breakers in a Siemens P1/P2/P3 Panelboard for 240V maximum Circuits, be sure to verify the Breaker _IS_ one of the "BL" Series (BL = 10KAIR, BLH = 22KAIR, HBL = 65KAIR), before you leave the Supply House!

The BL's will have the Buss Terminations at the lowest point on the Frame, plus the terminals are Buss Aligned (have an offset).

The "BQ" Series (BQ = 10KAIR, BQH = 22KAIR, HBQ = 65KAIR) has "Straight" Load-Side Terminals coming out of the center of the Frame.

Nevertheless, I am stunned that someone would install the Frame as shown in the image!


Scott35

p.s. Just noticed the Installer clipped the barriers at the Line Side Terminals!
Whadda Clown!!!

S.E.T.

[This message has been edited by Scott35 (edited 12-16-2006).]

If I recall correctly a Siemens "BQ" is the correct replacement of an older Cutler Hammer or Westinghouse Breaker.

No doubt it can also be used as a feed thru. Many breakers can be used as feed thru with the proper mounting kit.

A "BQ" breaker was used on ITE panelboards up untill about 1992, then Siemens redesigned their panelboards to use the then new "BL" low tab breaker cat.# TC1Q1 lugs are used for lug in applications.

I was just thinking I'd used these BQ breakers in panels before (I think they were old Westinghouse 3phase 120/208V panels)... but nothing like the one pictured!

BTW, the bus discoloration looks like it's from the manufacturing process, not necessarily the screws (Im not doubting 50A on a 8/32nd wouldnt heat up quite nicely either!)

I ran across one of these BQ panelboards in a church a couple of months ago. I had arrived with a BL breaker in hand, took off the deadfront, and surprise!

Luckily, there were some spares in there.

Whoever used the long screws to install those breakers could have used some carefully cut short lengths of small sized copper pipe as sleeves around the screws. Long enough to bridge the entire length of the gap. That would give better mechanical support and pass current better. But it's still not code, so I wouldn't do it.