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Posted By: Admin How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 02:13 AM
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These are pictures of a granny unit that our neighbor is building. The owner didn't want to pay our outrageous rates so the carpenters son decided that he would give it a try, after all how hard can it be? Below are some pictures of his handy work. They are going for close in inspection tomorrow. This is his final product!! Just wait until the owner sees my price to tear it all out and start over when it fails inspection. In the guys defense he did buy one of those "Wiring 1,2,3" books at the big box store.

Scameron81
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Posted By: mahlere Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 02:21 AM
"What could posibly go wrong?"

"That's the first thing that's ever gone wrong"

(Simpson fans will remember the episode.)
Posted By: circuit man Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 02:29 AM
ah heck it'll proably pass.the inspector is proably related to the guy! but really what a mess.i hate having to straighten someone elses mess out. maybe we can hire doofy,he'll get it right!sounds like a good episode for the twilight zone!
Posted By: PEdoubleNIZZLE Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 08:03 AM
Gentleman, there's an easy way to correct this. All you need is a gas can, a match, and maybe a ski mask [Linked Image]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 09:10 AM
Good God!,
This might explain why we have an apprenticeship system in the Electrical trade.
Why the tyraps on the wires?, I'd hate to fault-find or replace any wires in this place after it had been lined.
Going by pic #2 there wasn't a lot of planning went into this job either.
I give it a -2 out of 10.



[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 07-08-2006).]
Posted By: electure Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 11:08 AM
The tyraps are there to make this an ultra-neat wiring job, and to provide radiant wall heating.
You've got to love the nail protectors on the stud. I'll bet there aren't any on the side where the holes are, under the shear panel.

Has Granny taken out a large life insurance policy lately?
Posted By: HCE727 Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 03:27 PM
I do not know why you guy's can't get it through you heads. Black to black, white to white, what is so hard about that?
Posted By: John Crighton Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 04:03 PM
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i hate having to straighten someone elses mess out.

circuit man, I couldn't agree more. Nothing makes a job more annoying than when the materials have been butchered first. Guy must've thought those little tabs in the blue boxes were knockouts.

"No - no words. No words to describe it. Poetry! They should've sent a poet."
Posted By: BigJohn Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/08/06 08:50 PM
What I'll never understand is how someone can do work like this and not even suspect they're going about it wrong.

For example, picture four where the connector plate is hanging off the exhaust fan? "This piece was attached before I started, but now that I'm done it will float uselessly in space." How does that not ring bells?

-John
Posted By: sstrick Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/09/06 05:34 AM
Too cheap to hire a professional, but wires the whole house with #12!

I just love the 6 cables for 3 switches. And the grounds twisted so tight that one more twist and they'll snap!



[This message has been edited by sstrick (edited 07-09-2006).]
Posted By: Luketrician Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/09/06 06:57 AM
I've got it! Looks like this guy new that he was creating a death trap, so might as well make sure that the egc is nice and snug. The tighter I twist, the lower the impeadance, thus bettering the odds of the cb's tripping out quicker, and giving Granny a better chance to survive! [Linked Image]
Posted By: scameron81 Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/10/06 12:47 AM
Well it turns out the inspector wouldn't even inspect the job because they didn't have the panel mounted, the ground rod driven, or the gas and water bond in. So now they want me to do the sub feed, gas & water bond, and the ground rod. I told them i don't want any connection to the job. FYI the reason for the all #12 wiring is because the architect had it as a note on the drawings(that way the wire can burn longer before the breaker trips) I don't know if you guys noticed but in pic#2 if you look close you can see that they used 1/2 driven nails and bent them over to use as romex staples. When my electrician friends come over I give them the worlds worst wiring job tour.
Posted By: bauler Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/13/06 02:41 AM
Yea, but thats how the book said to do it Mr Inspector, you're just too picky. Love it when someone whats you to "clean up" someone elses work. One thing scrap copper is at a premium, maybe some will steal it.
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/13/06 03:24 AM
How hard can wiring be? Pretty ----ed hard if you don't know what you're doing. i.e: It took me 12 hours to wire my first traffic light, two years ago. Now it takes me 2 hours tops, 1 hour usually. And it takes me less time, every time.

Apparently, this guy just followed "1-2-3" until he could turn on the breakers and not smell smoke. And BTW, what's with all 12/3 NM?

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One thing scrap copper is at a premium, maybe some will steal it.

That reminds me, I gotta go in the crawlspace and cut out some old abandoned A/C cables before the copper price drops.
Ian A.

[This message has been edited by Theelectrikid (edited 12-10-2006).]
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/13/06 02:17 PM
In defense of the Wiring 1-2-3 books, they certainly don't tell you that this is how you perform an installation.

The problem with these how-to books is that they rely on the reader's common sense and mechanical aptitude; both of which are sorely lacking in this instance.

I know for sure these books don't tell you to crack off the cable-clamp tabs off a plastic switch-box.
Posted By: Gus99 Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 07/13/06 10:28 PM
Well buying a book is one thing, reading it is another.

When I wired my addition I bought one of those books. Not because I didn't know what I was doing but I wanted to make sure I followed new codes. I'm not an electrician (I'm a dreaded EE) so I'm not up on all the latest changes - like distance from the floor, switch height, minimum outlet count per sq ft, etc.

Well my book, I think its by Stanley, was very specific about many things missed above.

> at least a quater inch of jacket inside the box

> Clamping the cable within 4in of the box.

> no more than two cables through a single hole.

> rough requires all grounds and neutrals connected as practical as can be.

BTW, I ran a lot of 12/3 as well on lighting circuits. If you want to break up the switching later or install something unswitched at the end of the leg, 12/3 saves your butt!

[This message has been edited by Gus99 (edited 07-13-2006).]
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/08/06 12:59 AM
I will occasionally pickup a book that heavily references the code, I chucked the other books last year. Yet I still find errors in these books (at least what I think are errors), "If extending an old, ungrounded circuit, grab the ground from a water pipe." I always thought the cold water pipe wasn't an electrode past the first five feet?

Ian A.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/08/06 04:10 AM
What they suggest was once an approved method for making a ground on an ungrounded system. While we don't do it that way any more, the method can provide an effictive ground.
Posted By: electure Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/08/06 10:42 AM
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> Clamping the cable within 4in of the box.

Looks like Stanley is another misquoter. NM must be secured within 12" of the box. It's been that way for more than 65 yrs.

I've found a very good book for NEC info is the NEC.
Posted By: trobb Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/08/06 06:24 PM
When I need to help people out with projects, I reference the IRC (resi). How does that compare (electric) with the NEC? And does one trump the other?
Posted By: steve ancient apprentice Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/08/06 07:34 PM
My usual reply, Yuck what a mess. Get the clippers cut it all out and start over. Oh yes please get new boxes with the knockouts still intact. Nice splice job in the can. Good luck with this one. At least you have the room to get in and fix it. Remember to save the scrap. Brother the time people take to do the wrong thing.
Posted By: mamills Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/08/06 08:39 PM
It's really disappointing when good materials fall into the hands of people who don't know what to do with it. I can't even guess why this guy removed so many of the tabs in that switch box. I see one or two spots where the romex has been gouged by something. It also looks like he used about three times as much wire as necessary to accomplish this task...(i.e. You can drive from Houston to San Antonio by going through Dallas, but there are better ways... [Linked Image]). I would be willing to bet that any one of y'all could pull most of this stuff out, replace the boxes (with ones that still have the KO's/romex tabs in place) and re-do this job, and still have quite a bit of wire left over.

I have several of the Wiring 1,2,3, books in my library (mostly for grins), and even these books don't advocate doing something this sloppy. I guess reading the book is one thing, and interpreting it is another.

I wonder how many times he twisted those EGC's together [Linked Image]?

Mike (mamills)
Posted By: Tesla Re: How Hard Can Wiring Be? - 09/09/06 04:07 AM
Quantity has a quality all its own.

You certainly can't doubt that this player is soley responsible for the incredible rise in copper prices and the shortage of Romex worldwide.

I hate to bid again based on his 'actuals'.

This is the first time that I've seen an air core transformer built into a residential stud wall.

As for grounding at the can... it seems that a step has been omitted.

This is the first player I've come across that successfully converted a can light into a 4 square; I find them too confining for this use.
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