Would You Want This Panelboard In Your Home?



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 05-07-2004).]

Why is it that most painters are clueless to the fact that we really don't wan't paint inside our panels???? & that there IS a reason for that!?!! (resistance).. This one looks like its working on its 2nd coat!

At least it has a separate ground bar!

-Randy

I'm pretty firm with customers about not coming for the final until after the painting is done. I also carry painters masking tape on the truck to prevent this.

One of my least favorite things is having the customer tell me he's rolling the paint and when I come back, he hired someone who sprayed and all the wires are white.

Dave

The obvious problem with the paint aside, It bothers me to see a small panel such as this stuffed with all those tandem breakers. It seems like a method of cost cutting, instead of installing a nice full-sized panel with full size breakers, and at least a little room for growth.

Joe: I hope they didn't paint the buss connections as well!

Mike (mamills)

Someone also suggested that this equipment may have been under water at one time. I think NEMA has a recommended standard or guide for the subject of floods and electrical equipment?

Besides being painted, and probably overcrowded (tandems) it sure looks like a 3 wire panel, as I see no ground conductor, nor ground block!

That leads me to believe it is either a 'sub' or a "no-main", but there's more than 6 switches. Red Tag time!

John

It is a sub panel the equipment ground bar is in the left side so no issue there. It also is probably an 8/16 type panel. (Eight full size breakers or eight tandem breakers) so no problem there. I guess the main issue here is the paint.

The panel looks like a I-T-E panel, most C/B's are Bryant/ Westinghouse,I always cut a cover out of the box the panel came in but that will not stop some bozo from pulling it out, lazy painters w/ their airless and drywall hangers with a router get my blood boiling.

Looks like the painter thought that the box was just a junction for neutrals.....

I hate going into a house and seeing electrical equipment painted over. The worst is when someone has deliberately painted all the switches and outlets to match the wall.

I thought that one is not supposed to reidentify the phase conductors white

I have seen this many times. If that was my work, I would have it replaced at the painters expense.
I also see red and black conductors under the same phase - I wonder if that is from the same cable?

Pierre

I see this far too often. If it's on new construction, I tell the GC that on huge change order is needed for replacing the panel(s) ruined by either painter or drywaller.
If it an old house, then I include a new service in the estimate for repair.
This kind of junk I consider sabatage of the electrical work.

[This message has been edited by nesparky (edited 05-11-2004).]

The only real question here is: why are there sections of wire that actually _don't_ have paint on them???

Well, the real story is that all these wires were white before the painter got there, and this was all done intentionaly to comply with 200.7(C).

I believe this was once brought up in another thread. If I remember correctly, any wiring and/or device(s) that had been submerged has to be tested with a megger?

I don't lay total blame on the painter. IMO, the electrician is just as responsible (if not more) for protecting his/her work. It is rather simple to place a piece of cardboard over the panel.
Just my 2 cents.

Donnie

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 05-10-2004).]

Donnie What you said is true. Unfortunatly for too often the cardboard disappears when the drywaller, taper and/or painter show up. I have left cardboard covers in every panel I've roughed in only to find far too many missing when I return for trim out. Some times I have had panels look like the one shown but without the circuit breakers. The buss is usually painted also. This is why as far as I am concerned this is sabatage of electrical work.
There is not enough money in any job to stand guard on a roughed in panel while waiting for the other trades to do thier work. This is why the GC gets the change order. He can sort out who is going to pay for the damage. As long as we install something for protecting the panel, they can pay for the damage.

This sort of behavior is common in the UK too I am afraid to say. It doesn't matter how much you cover switches, sockets, Distribution Boards, Service Cut-outs etc..the buggers will still find someway of layering it with paint.

Some use the excuse that the covering means they won't be able to paint the wall properly..others simply don't care.

Seen loads of painted switches and outlets here too. I don't mind too much as long as it is distemper, but any paint that won't go off with water gets me mad.
Another common thing I _don't_ like is taking off receptacle covers but not taping the ground scrapers of the Schuko outlets. Will definitely ensure a perfect ground connection.

Paint YES humongous problem. tandem breakers(cheap installation). Now on to the question, Joe when was this panel installed? And Im also curious as to whether or not this is a subfeed. it is true that it does have a GROUNDED conductor buss But if it isnt a subfeed then where is the grounding conductor and also if that were the case wheres the bonding screw?

and an equipment GROUNDING conductor buss. ok see it now.

[This message has been edited by wirenut73 (edited 05-25-2004).]

Not to mention the disconnecting means?LOL!?!?!

Is that 2 pole full space breaker a BR series type breaker also. just curious.

remove and replace

[This message has been edited by wirenut73 (edited 05-25-2004).]

Loadcenter is a common tern used in the field and we understand that, but the term panelboard and cabinet are defined in Article 100. I did not take the picture and called attention to it to address the subject in 110.12(C).

I'd be more concerned with all the three wire circuits that appear to have both wires tied to the same side of the line thereby overloading the neutral in each circuit.

I was going to say maybe the conduit is used for ground but then I saw the post saying about the ground bar. Phew!!

[This message has been edited by Theelectrikid (edited 09-01-2004).]

It looks like a painted subpanel feeding who knows how many more (possably, sorry, probably) painted sub-panels.

Wait a minute, just noticed something. Is that bottom-right hand two-pole CB rated for aluminum wiring? If it's not, call 9-1-1 for a heads up! But then again, maybe the painter tryed applying gloss to fool us all?????

I see several tandems that each has one black and one red wire on it. I wonder if those are multiwire circuits with badly overloaded neutrals?