The issue was settled some time ago when OSHA tried to enforce the GFCI requirements for a fountain where a change in Article 680 cleared that up in the form of a fine print note.

Now, see the definition of a Fountain.

Question: Do you think that a drinking fountain should be protected by a GFCI?

If so, why?

Joe, is there any record of anyone being electrocuted or seriously hurt by a fault in a drinking fountain? The red flags are all present,water,metal,and electricity.I think this is another example of the fine line that the nec must try to walk. Practicality(no nuisance trips) vs. people protection.

Not required. I agree with ga sparky but water, electricity, and metal can be said about many appliances. Dishwashers, washing machines etc.

June 1987 - a four year old girl was electrocuted and seriously injured at a major theme park in CA. She was drinking from a water fountain at the theme park. Her father who was lifting her at the time was also seriously injured in the incident.

Bryan Haywood www.SAFTENG.net

What if a single recept. was installed to serve the drinking fountain, rather than a duplex. With a duplex recept. power is available in what would be a quasi-wet location. With a single recept. the fountain occupies the only available source. We installed laundry circuits like this for several years for the washing machine, a single recept. behind the unit, and the inspector said by permitting only the appliance a source connection that a GFCI wasn't required. This was in the early 90's.

joeh20 you are correct about the laundry circuit. It's still correct today. It's an exception in Art210.8(A)5 Exp. 2 Basically the washer and dryer do not require GFCI because they are plugged into a dedicated receptacle....right?

GFCI seems like a good idea on a drinking fountain (water & electricity) but with all the surges from the compressor I think it'd require a reset most of the time. Perhaps industry needs to make a special GFCI made especially for water fountains. First one to the patent office with this idea could be rich. On your marks.....get set.....$$$$

Perhaps the mfg's of water fountains should build the protection into the unit.

RSlater,
RSmike

I suggest that IF it is decided to "improve" a drinking fountain by requiring a GFI, that the change be made in the UL standard, and not the NEC. Let UL require manufacturers to incorporate such a device in the product, with accessable re-set/trip buttons. If they're affordable for $10 hair dryers, they ought to be affordable for $300 water fountains.
Also, the new GFI standards are claimed to reduce the problems caused by nuisance tripping- especially a concern with refrigeration compressors!

I see that everyday at my school. Old 1975+ Raceway wiring origninating on the corner, going around to the fountains. No GFCI either!! Also in the boy's gym locker room, there is the same thing, with a GFCI. In the undressing area, there is an outlet, with a metal box, 15 amp, grounded (I HOPE! They tested the GFCI, which has a "NO EQUIPMENT GROUND" Sticker. The janitor said that all of the receptacles, lights, fans, water fountains were on the same circuit.) The receptacle has no cover plate! Some of these guys get sweaty, so I hope their shirt doesn't touch the outlet, or the un grounded metal box, if there is a short. It looks like they tryed to replace the plat with a handful of dryer foam! (They stuffed it around the outlet.) They Also said the GFCI doesn't protect/work anymore either! Ughhhh... Oh, by the way Joe, I think that fountains should have GFCI's since they are technically water faucets.

I bet that the rec. should be in the drinking fountain not out side it.
There are 3 on the job and I put them were the instructions said wright beside a 1/2" copper line. I don't know why thay would put it there?
A GFI would not be a good Idea and is not need it if done the wright way.

How about producing fountains that are not metallic, and double insulated.
There are many very durable plastics today, and I bet even less expensive than the metallic type.

Pierre

Would nonmetallic drinking fountains survive the janitors/housekeeping staff?

NOCAL said, "Would nonmetallic drinking fountains survive the janitors/housekeeping staff?" The answer: NO. And in my school it would not survive the kids!

OK, My back hurts more these days after going up and down, and carrying a ladder all day. Which, thank god, I do not need to do very often. So I pondered the question while sitting in my #8 bonded and GFCI protected Hot Tub.
Here is my take, (We can all have fun watching it get shot full of holes!)
I will start with the idea that we are using the grounding conductor to provide an alternate path to the neutral as a way to clear 120V faults to ground. In the case of say a kitchen we have a potential to come into contact with both a hot conductor and a "grounded" metal surface (IE: water pipe.) bypassing the grounding and grounded conductors which serve the circuit so in that case GFCI protection is a great idea since the GFCI is going to trip when it sees more hot going out than neutral coming back. Same idea in a garage or a basement where we have an opportunity to say work in our bare feet on a damp floor while we try and fix that broken lamp switch while it is plugged in. ( Keep in mind here that we do not need to GFCI protect receptacles for certain appliances under certain conditions even in garages and basements.)

So with that said I see the drinking fountain as OK to leave on a non GFCI protected circuit. IF! it has been properly grounded then the case is grounded through the attachement plug and receptacle. Any fault to ground will be picked up by the "alternate path to neutral" wire (yes the green one.) and the breaker should trip and not reset until the path is cleared.

Well, it's good to see that electricity has finally reached West Virginia (haha).

More to the point, Kent, is that the smallest branch circuit is 15 amp; that's enough current to trip 300 GFCI's. The GFCI, which is set at a level where you only feel a small shock. Much more than that, and you can be seriusly hurt.
15 amps is more than enough to kill you. Heck, 1/10 amp will kill you. The circuits are sized to deliver the necessary energy and protect the wiring- not to protect you. The GFCI was invented to address this issue.

Must say that I do not understand your point. Then all circuits "should" be GFCI protected? Where do you draw the line?

Why draw a line at all?

Why not GFCIs for all 15 and 20 amp receptacles?

Is that such a radical idea?

It is now code for commercial kitchens.

I like Pierre's idea of plastic drinking fountains, I am sure they could be made durable.

Bob

you've a point Bob...

why not go whole house 300ma protection like Europe does. No doubt many 4 yr olds at the park or at home will aviod mulitudes of disasters right?

one would think the safety community would rather advocate a complete system overhaul like this than the year in/year out battle over issues like water fountains that merely take up CMP's time

I'm sure our oversaeas contingent could validate this if they wished

But then again, maybe it's not the destination, it's the ridethey desire, waving pictures of fried little girls in FF's arms around to push the latest widget?

Hey, it's a living right?

~S~

RSmike - if they could perfect that tech, you'd probably start seeing them used / allowed for sump pumps as well.

And I also think that, with appropriate design use of non-conductive materials, you could effectively insulate a metallic drinking fountain, without too much additional expense.

of course it may be seen as the pool calling the fountain black if i point out i can still hardwire one non-gfi....

tit/tat

potatoE/ tomatoE

???

~S~

Doug my sump pump is on a GFCI it operates a few times an hour during a rain storm. In the 2 or 3 years it has been on a GFCI it has never tripped.

I do agree with Sparky on the strangeness of the GFCI required / not required for pool pumps.

For pools, it is not too difficult to remove the ground prong of a cord connected pool pump. It is a lot harder to remove the EGC of a hard wired pool pump.

Pierre