Crowfeet
Tripod

Joe,

Here is part 2 of some old electrical parts. If these pictures don't come out to good, let me know. I will get my son to reshoot the picture. I never had a digital camera until just this week. Now I am going to go nuts and send in lots of pictures. (I hope.)

Caper

Pictures are fine!

Joe,

You have always talked about tripods, rosettes, and crowfeet. Now you have some pictures. Do you want any old Knob and tube? Or an old K & T light switch? I think I still have some of them around. How about some loom?

Caper

P.S. watch what comes next in old parts.

Caper:

I have many pictures of knob and tube installations still in use. If you want to send me more, I will add them to the collection here after putting them into a series of discussions.

I will look forward to more old electrical parts. Look for some old stuff before it is removed, so we can show how it was used when first installed.

Joe

Joe,
Here is another old electrical part. Any idea what this is? I have some ideas, but would like to hear from the rest of the members.

Caper

Is it a heater of some sort?

It's a line-voltage electric {duh} cigarette lighter. There should be a momentary switch on it, and the center element is covered by perforated mica, and it’s replaceable with its Edison base—like that of a plug fuse. There is a small coiled heater beneath the mica.

{Used to work at a place that had them screwed to the walls in breakrooms—with smolking allowed there only. <The later iteration was a Bic lighter expoxied to a lead brick.> The replacement elements (~25 watts) were made by Eagle Electric—the same folks that made ceramic 660-watt Edison-based “glo-cone” heaters.}




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 07-14-2002).]

OK, I was puzzled as to why one would want such a small heater...

Bjarney,

That is what I thought it was. I came acrossed it one day while I was working in an old house.

caper

Joe,

For your collection of photos of old electrical parts.

I came across this American-made knife switch in a box of old radio parts in somebody's barn. The switch is only a small one, about 2.5" length on the porcelain base. The top carries the name "Trumbull" and, presumably, their trade mark - a "T" in a circle. I don't know if this company was well-known in the States or not.

The only other markings, other than "Made in U.S.A." are "707", which I take to be a part number and "12-21," possibly a date of manufacture???

Best wishes,
Paul.

In these pictures, one is an old receptacle.

As for the other 3, this was an old dimmer switch that was in a large box and it controlled a large light fixture.

Caper

Mr. Tedesco,

Here are some pictures to add to your thread about old devices.


The face of an old surface mount Leviton Receptacle.

The back of the same receptacle, note the price, adjust for inflation, and these things were expensive!

A Trumbull brand double pole switch.


An old Leviton switch in my house, the "bandaid" is the real McCoy added by my Grandmother years ago to keep the cover from falling off...

Thanks!

-Virgil


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 07-15-2002).]

Paul,

I have seen Trumball electrical parts here in Nj before. They made circuit breakers for sure. ( I might even have one or two left.) I don't think they made circuit breaker panels though, cause I haven't seen any of them.

Caper

Similar to Paul's Trumbull Switch, the one I have has lettering on the back that says:

709
Made in U.S.A.
2-25

Great thread! Keep 'em coming!

Bjarney,

You know you may be right, it has been a long time since I saw that "dimmer" installed. I guess it was when I first started in my own business around 1984, before that I worked for an electrical contractor. I only started to save the old parts when I was in my own business. One of the jobs I worked on had a beautiful all brass, fuse box, with knife switches to disconnect branch circuits from the brass busbar, and a large brass douple pole knife switch that was used for the main disconnect. I wish I could have gotten pictures of that.

Caper

Those pole-switches weren't used for 110 AC, were they?

Harold E, our downtown church building has a panelboard like you are describing that is still in use. It's the originial one put in back when the church was built. It just scares the bejeeebers out of me to know that it is in a room that many have access to. But it is a beauty!!

i have quite a variety of old watthour meters by the big 4 GE,DUNCAN,westinghouse,& SANGAMO.some go back to 1898 & up to present day.

Caper:
If you haven't already looked at it, cast an eye on Trainwire's thread in this discussion area entitled "32 volt DC lighting panel". There are some pix of a wonderful old panel, as well as an interesting description of it.

Regarding the large ceramic rheostat pic you posted, I have run into a couple of these in the past. They were used to regulate the amount of DC voltage being fed to two carbon arc lamps in a theater projection room. If memory serves me, I believe only one end of the coil was connected to the DC source (a motor-generator set)and the tap connection fed to a large ballast resistor, then to the arc lamp. I think these rheostats were made by Ohmite, and each had a large control knob like the one you posted.

Circuit Man: I like old meters also. Have two or three in my collection. Down in this area (SE Texas), they are pretty hard to come by. Can you post some pix of your collection?

Mike (mamills)

mike as of the moment i don't have any way ,but i have a friend that has a way.maybe i can get him to help.ERWIN

mike ,just thought of one thing.check out watthourmeters.com.it's a friends website.hopefully then i can get some pics. posted.

Circuit Man:

Looked at it a little while ago. This is a fascinating website!! Thanks for putting me onto it.

Does anyone have any pix or know of any websites which deal with vintage fuse boxes or circuit breaker panels?

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-20-2002).]

There are a few searching at memory.loc.gov

Please don't tell me the two brass screws on the white receptacle were the terminal screws!
Was this 120 volts?

Texas ranger,

Yes, as a matter of fact those 2 screw terminals were used to connect 110 volt wiring to that white receptacle. It came from a very old wiring system here in the east coast.

Caper

The label reads: "GEM" Sectional Switch Box--Patented April 2, 1907, March 1, 1910, February 13, 1912. Type "F" 2 1/4" Deep, beveled corners, knock-outs for loom, approved by the underwriters, takes all makes of switches and receptacles. Chicago Fuse Mfg. Co. sole manufacturers, Chicago, New York.


The label reads: Single H & H Struck Up Push Switch Plate, Old Brass, Std. Pkg. is Plates for 100 Switches


4401, N Trade Mark, 10 Ampere Single Pole Nutmeg Push Switch, Std. Pkg. 100, Patented Nov.1, 1916, N. E. C. Standard Ratings, 10 Amp. 120 Volt, 5 Amp. 240 Volt.

The packaging of the old stuff is interesting, too. It's very heavy box board, by today's standards. This was found in an 1880's house in West St. Paul (which is immediately south of downtown. . .no kidding). The first electrification of the structure happened in the 1920's, and the installer left his "trash" between the joists of the second floor floor.

Al

Joe,
What did ElectricAL talk about? He has one I never heard of? Knockout parts for loom? What is that? Did I send you the picture of LOOM? If not I will send it in the next batch.

Caper

Caper,


This is the back of a 1920's bevel back gangable switch box. The steel is not galvanized, just painted black. The loom knock outs (the bottom two are the most visible) were intended to be punched into the box with something like a tack hammer.


A cotton binder from a coil of Loom.


This is hard to read, even when I have it in my hands. This photo is color shifted a bit from yellow to red to enhance the actual yellow ink (for Gold) on the old yellow of the box board. The box reads: 1 Roll, No. 8 Size, Gold Bond, Pure Rubber, Splicing Tape, Northwestern Electric Equipment Co., Jobbers of Electrical Supplies, 174-78 E. Sixth St., St. Paul, Minn.


A scrap of foil, or sheet, solder. Paste flux on a splice and crumple the solder around it, then apply heat. Viola! Flowed solder joint.

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 07-22-2002).]

Caper: Is the white receptacle (mentioned by Texas Ranger) a one-piece device, or are there two pieces - an edison base socket + a plug body?

Also, have you seen an edison base socket which mounts flush in a wall, inside a device box? An old church here (built in 1926, and only minimally rewired since that time) had (has?) a large number of these guys, each one protected by a nice brass plate with a little flap that lifts up to expose the socket for use. At the time, I believe this may have been the only way to connect portable cord-and-plug equipment to a source of power. I remember seeing an old electric heater that had a screw body wired to the end of it's power cord instead of the male connectors everyone knows today. Kinda odd, though...in a couple of locations, there were 30a plug fuses screwed into these wall sockets, and I don't think this was an attempt to keep little fingers from harm because the fuse element was still intact.

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-22-2002).]

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-22-2002).]

Mike,

That white receptacle is one piece. It would mount to the wall and your Knob and Tube wiring would attach to the brass screws. I haven't seen many of these installed, but I have only found the one. I have seen many,many of those old black boxes with the 2 holes for the loom. I have a picture of the loom which I will send in. As for the Edison based sockets that you mentioned, I haven't seen them either. I worked in northern NJ and many towns/cities have buildings 100-200 years old. Many still have the old wiring still in place and in use today.

Caper

Joe, These three pictures are of a piece of loom. Remember this stuff? (LOL)
Caper

Yes, and it is still available!

TUBING, FLEXIBLE NONMETALLIC(YCTR)

These listings include woven flexible nonmetallic tubing (fiber loom) in
trade sizes 7/32 to 2-1/2 in. incl. for installation as mechanical protection
in accordance with Articles 320 and 324 of the 1999 National Electrical Code.

The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is UL3,
Flexible Nonmetallic Tubing.

Joe

Joe,

This was a connector that was attached to the end of the BX cable. It would allow a transition from BX to an open knob and tube splice.

Caper

So that's "loom" eh?

I always wondered why they called them "loom clamps"...

Another note:

Anyone notice the letters "N" and "T" that are stamped on loom clamps (and modern romex clamps) in steel boxes? What do they stand for?

That one has puzzled me since I was a first year apprentice...

(Steel City Octagonal Boxes have 'em)

Caper:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen these transition devices referred to as a "monkey fist". I think I saw this in an old catalog a number of years ago.

Mike (mamills)

Mike,

I think Caper's BX cable to K&T gofrom fitting has a lot of names. As I recall, someone here called it a "monkey face", too.

The first journeyman's test I ever took was given by the electrical inspector of a small municipally-owned power company that served an area about 20 miles on a side in Fremont, Nebraska. One of the questions on this 3-sheet mimeographed test asked, "What is a 'birds eye'?" The correct multiple choice answer described what Caper's photo (above) shows.

It's kind of like a miniature weatherhead. They were made for NM as well.

Al

Mike and Al,

Yes, that little tiny "weatherhead" does go on the end of BX and the loose ends of the wire will then get soldered to the knob and tube. If it was called "Monkey fist" "Bird's eye" or what ever, I am not sure. Maybe Joe T. can answer that. I have never installed it, I have only removed a lot of it while doing rewiring of the old homes here in my area. Also that black tube is called Loom and what the contractors would do, is use this to sleeve the RH wire that enters boxes. The loom would protect the RH when it would have to make a turn into a box, or sometimes when the wire turns the corner.

Caper

Sparky,

If you read the UL white book it says under "outlet boxes" "Clamps are marked with one or more of the following letters... "A" means it is good for armor cable. "N" non metallic sheathed cable. "T" flexible tubing. (LOOM) "MCI" means it is good for MC metal clad. "F" flex metallic armor cable. So a box with N and T means it is good for non metallic and loom.

Caper

Caper: I believe that the term used to identify the "fitting" is found in here in the 2002 NEC here:

300.16 Raceway or Cable to Open or Concealed Wiring.

(A) Box or Fitting. A box or terminal fitting having a separately bushed hole for each conductor shall be used wherever a change is made from conduit, electrical metallic tubing, electrical nonmetallic tubing, nonmetallic-sheathed cable, Type AC cable, Type MC cable, or mineral-insulated, metal-sheathed cable and surface raceway wiring to open wiring or to concealed knob-and-tube wiring.

A fitting used for this purpose shall contain no taps or splices and shall not be used at luminaire (fixture) outlets.

I'm on the road, and when I get home I will look into the early catalog I have where this fitting should be identified.




[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 07-24-2002).]

Joe:
Love these pix! I came across these some time ago. I check back periodically to see if any more have been added. My co-workers here think I'm weird for having pictures like this for wallpaper on my computer. Oh well...
BTW, I also recommend the "Electric Meter Horrors" link on Joe's website.

Mike (mamills)

Mike,

You think you are "crazy", just ask Joe. I have been "talking" to him for many years and we all agree, that we might be a little strange. However we are people who are dedicated to making sure that electricl work is installed correctly, and hopefully we can help to insure safe electrical installations and to insure safety to the people who have to live in these places.

Caper

Joe,

Saw those pictures. Boy do they look familer. Looks like the stuff I had to work with whn I started to work with my old boss. I wonder if anyone knows what "rubber and friction" means? (LOL)


Caper

Caper:
Just hazarding a guess here...probably far off.
I remember working with a kind of insulating tape years ago when making splices(may still be available, for all I know) which came in two parts. The first part was a kind of rubber material which had some type of peel-off backing, for wrapping directly around the spliced conductors. The second part was a fabric-like material impregnated with something that would allow it to stick to itself, which was wrapped over the rubber layer.

O.K., remember we're ladies and gentlemen here...

Mike (mamills)

OK, I give up... What is it???
_____________________________________________



Old push-button switch in the house that my partner, Joe, just bought.

Looks like a receptacle to take non-grounding versions of what would now be 120 and 240V plugs (NEMA 1-15 and 2-15 ?)

Absolute guesswork here (gotta remember that liability issue!), but maybe they were used interchangeably at one time?

Mike,

Yeah, you are right. Years ago when they use to install knob and tube (K&T)wiring, the contractor would solder all of his splices. Then they would wrap it with rubber tape, then finish it off with the olf cloth "friction" tape. I wish I had a picture off the "splice box" I seen years ago. With K&T wiring, there was no splice boxes. Well one homeowner took a tuna can and used it to install a splice inside of it. You have to give him credit for thinking! (LOL)

Caper

'66wv— On your photos…the "4-pin" receptacle must have been that experimental NEMA 1½-15 type.

Here's a bit of a view of wooden surface raceway with a pendant adapter. I took this out of a basement of an 1890's duplex about seven years ago.

ElectricAL,

I have seen those old "running boards" for electrical wiring here in NJ. They are usually attached to Knob and Tube (K&T) wiring. The boards would help keep wiring safe when running on the surface where it could be damaged.

Joe,

Here in NJ for a period of several years ( Around the 60's I think) where the electrical contractor would attach his ground wires (Even though they were only 16 ga. copper ) to a screw and nut on the outside of the box. It makes for a very difficult time, if you wanted to get to the ground wire in a finished room. The ground wire you are looking for is attached either in the back or top of the box. Was this a common installation?

Caper

Caper:

That practice was not unusual. I have seen electrical contractors from the East to the West coasts, did do it the way you describe.

It was not covered, until Andy Cartel sent in a proposal for the 87? NEC to make sure the rule required the EGC's to be inside the box.

Here's the current rule in the 2002 NEC:

250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes.

Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any separate equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use.

This was typical as well, and was called the "Boston Back Wrap", or in any city the _________ backwrap!

Joe,

I have seen the "back wrap" method of grounding. I have seen the farmers, 3-way switch, the ground wires bolted on the outside of the box, the Knob and tube (K&T) wiring, and the running boards, etc. However, ( And I wish I had a picture of it.) I did see a tuna fish can used as a splice box for K&T wiring. The homeowner thought that after lunch, ( a tuna sandwich, I guess) he cleaned out the tuna can and cut notches in it, then installed it around an open "T" splice in his attic around the K&T splice. I also saw an engineer argue with me that his job was OK. He ran a 14-2 RX wire from one switch to another to create a new three way switch. However he ran a yellow #14 THHN wire along side the RX. That made up his third wire. It just makes you shake your head and laugh.

Caper

A "switched outlet".

This is made by Arrow, part #8668X. Stamped on the face of the receptacle and on the yoke, one can read "10 A. 250 V." The snap switch mechanism is two pole, single throw with a pair of brass terminal screw for the line at the top (as shown in the photo). As set of brass load terminal screws are on the bottom. I found the device connected to a 120 volt hot and neutral, but the load terminal screws weren't used for anything down stream.

Al

Al;
Thanks for posting the pic. of the switch/receptacle! I remember seeing one exactly like this many years ago in a friend's house when I was living in Denver. I couldn't begin to describe it because it was so strange looking.

Mike (mamills)

Mr. Tedesco:

I have attached 2 pictures.

First is a junction box that has some loom-covered K&T coming into it via some ceramic "Federal Bushings" as well as some old BX.



The second picture shows the splices inside of the junction box.




This wiring has been taken out of service due to a leaky sewer pipe incident, which is a another story...I hope I can find the pictures from that one.

Feel free to use the pictures as you see fit.

All the best!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 08-07-2002).]

Gotta love those old ceramic bushings, insulators and tubes...

Thanks for the pix!

Mike (mamills)

Rubber and Friction Tape



I found this in an old furniture store on the 3rd floor, and the splices look original and are probably like those we have discussed here.

Joe,

Just try to remove that splice to work on it. CRACK! I can hear the insulation crumbling beneath my fingers right now. You are left with 2 thin pieces of bare #14 ga wire. I have seen way too many of those splices in my time. Thank you anyway. (GRIN)

Caper

Joe: was it left uncovered/exposed like that when you found it? It also looks like there is some kind of "goop" in there with the wires. I assume this is still energized...

Mike (mamills)

Like a pretzel for sure, and the cover was still missing and I believe the "goop" was probably floor wax!

Joe,

Is there a single gang floor box cover that is UL listed for this application? There is one that everyone uses however if you read the instructions, it is meant for show window floors only.

Caper

In Austria connections were either twisted or screwed with bolt and nut and taped with only cloth friction tape. (i also found band aid, installed by electricians!)
BTW, does anybody know if that tape stuff is still available anywhere in the world? It was much handier than today's PVC tape.

Home Depot sells cloth friction tape!!!

Is it a good idea to wrap modern day splices (with wire nuts of course) with the vinyl tape and the friction tape over it?

Or is that overkill?

P.S. I have a couple of those Leviton s.m. outlets. Also the Eagle versions. They're still manufactured...my aunt's apartment has a bunch. Her place needs an entire rewiring, but I'm not going to touch it...it's a job for a real electrician...there are wires crumbling inside the walls.

regarding sparky's tandem/parallel outlet:

At one time, there were two styles of 110-volt/two-pin plugs. One was the regular parallel blade plug and another called "tandem." The outlet was designed so you could use either type.

Later outlets would use T-shaped holes for the same purpose.

Look at the following pictures in this website and you'll see pictures of the outlets and the tandem plug that would have fit it:
http://home.netcom.com/~wa2ise/power/power.htm

--
sven

That "weatherhead", "monkey's fist" or "birdseye" is known as an "A-Head" in old catalogs. Creighton

Thanks Creighton!

Looking for more old electrical equipment, if you have some send me the pictures so I can load it up here.

"Monkey Fist"? "Bird's Eye"? NO. These are called "A-head"s.
Creighton

that outlet in the pic above the PB switch, looks like it's installed in the floor, judging from what appears to be years of dirt and other debris in the slots.

Earlier in this thread, there was a couple of mentions of Trumbell Electric.I believe they made quite a variety of electrical equipment. I suspect a number of you carry keys to locked electrical cabinets. One of them may be labeled TEU which actually originally stood for "Trumbell Electrical Unit"