How's the solar installs??? - 09/08/12 07:27 PM
How is the solar market in your areas??
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 09/17/12 01:53 PM
John,
Around here in north NJ, they are still going strong. I still get to inspect 1 or 2 every month.
Around here in north NJ, they are still going strong. I still get to inspect 1 or 2 every month.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 09/17/12 06:04 PM
Harold:
I have 10 (ten) at one of the industrial parks. They expect to have panels on every building by the end of '13.
Most are under 1 MW range.
Resi is going strong; average five (5) plus each week.
I was/am wondering how the Ecs here are doing!
I have 10 (ten) at one of the industrial parks. They expect to have panels on every building by the end of '13.
Most are under 1 MW range.
Resi is going strong; average five (5) plus each week.
I was/am wondering how the Ecs here are doing!
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/13/12 01:34 AM
Guess that there are no solar ECs here??
This turned into a John & Harold thread!!
This turned into a John & Harold thread!!
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/13/12 02:25 AM
There's a small market here for small remote off grid systems. We have cheap hydro electricity. Hard to compete with this
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/13/12 02:52 AM
Florida slowed way down when the state ran out of rebate money.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/14/12 03:58 PM
Thats happening in all the alternative energy industry sad to say
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/14/12 04:48 PM
The good news is solar PV is getting close to the "buck a watt" price that makes it attractive. The bad news is they don't make it here.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/19/12 12:38 AM
Last panels I saw that were Made in the USA was about two years back.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/21/12 06:53 AM
Has Sharp USA bovine sharp china too?
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 10/29/12 08:07 PM
John,
Well I think NJ is trying to be a "Green" energy state and that is why there is a lot of solar here in NJ. I have 2 big plans on my desk for review. They are at 2 schools in one of my town. The one will generate 400 amps at 480 volt. I still haven't done a complete review yet.
Well I think NJ is trying to be a "Green" energy state and that is why there is a lot of solar here in NJ. I have 2 big plans on my desk for review. They are at 2 schools in one of my town. The one will generate 400 amps at 480 volt. I still haven't done a complete review yet.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 11/30/12 05:19 AM
I don't know who made them but there are some big arrays going up in Mass. going towards Cape Cod. I 've been seeing more wind turbines in RI.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 12/07/12 10:39 PM
There are alot of systems going in here in Massachusetts. The state has incentives which helps.There are many solar farms going in also.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 12/31/12 03:16 AM
here in NY...u can figure on MONTHS between 1st visit to customer and all the paperwork for permits and rebate OK's...tough sell....
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 12/31/12 06:54 AM
They have plenty of rebate promises going unfilled here in Florida because they ran out of money and it is unlikely they are ever going to have it. I wonder about how many poor homeowners who are worried about foreclosure because they financed the solar against their house, planning on the rebate to pay it off.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 12/31/12 04:00 PM
WARNING...SOAPBOX COMING OUT!!
Government rebates are generally a bribe for someone to make the wrong economic choice.
That's just my opinion...but people make the right choice, there's no need to induce them to do so. If people make what someone considers 'the wrong choice', there's a need to 'sweeten the deal' to get them to change their minds. If solar makes economic sense, by all means use it. If it doesn't, why would you use it?
Here near the steel mills, the EPA and environmentalists fought tooth and nail to fine and regulate the mills into treating their water and reusing it. Once the mills reluctantly installed the treatment plants, they discovered that it ended up saving them money (lots of it). A straightforward presentation to the mills showing how they could save money (and the environment) would have been much more friendly than shoving it down their throats and would not have created such animosity between the various groups.
If there's a good idea that makes sense, explain it and it will sell itself. If you need to bribe or threaten folks to agree, there's something fishy about it.
END OF RANT...SOAPBOX GOING AWAY!!!
We now return you to your original thread.
Government rebates are generally a bribe for someone to make the wrong economic choice.
That's just my opinion...but people make the right choice, there's no need to induce them to do so. If people make what someone considers 'the wrong choice', there's a need to 'sweeten the deal' to get them to change their minds. If solar makes economic sense, by all means use it. If it doesn't, why would you use it?
Here near the steel mills, the EPA and environmentalists fought tooth and nail to fine and regulate the mills into treating their water and reusing it. Once the mills reluctantly installed the treatment plants, they discovered that it ended up saving them money (lots of it). A straightforward presentation to the mills showing how they could save money (and the environment) would have been much more friendly than shoving it down their throats and would not have created such animosity between the various groups.
If there's a good idea that makes sense, explain it and it will sell itself. If you need to bribe or threaten folks to agree, there's something fishy about it.
END OF RANT...SOAPBOX GOING AWAY!!!
We now return you to your original thread.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 12/31/12 11:39 PM
Vermont is usually the first of last state to do anything, basically due to our legislature being comprised of old ex hippies or old ex farmers 
We signed onto the Green machine like it was custom made for the Green Mountain state , when the rebates came along every out of work putz threw a shingle up, lettered their PU trucks, and went about foisting their save the planet installs upon the public
They didn't need a license, few were NABCEP certified, and even if they were.... to say 'article 690' to them was about as good as saying 'Rt 91' .....
Even the insurance cabal was slow on the uptake, being some of their rooftop installs held little consideration for damages via weight (iirc, our snow load is like 60lbs a sq ft) and/or penetrations
And so the state, in their infinite wisdom of things 'market' bred an entire new trade of hacks, who of course took every opportunity to make a $$$ due to the holes legislated for them
But us EC's are always last on the call list with the 'ol....'just hook it all in' line....
~S~
We signed onto the Green machine like it was custom made for the Green Mountain state , when the rebates came along every out of work putz threw a shingle up, lettered their PU trucks, and went about foisting their save the planet installs upon the public
They didn't need a license, few were NABCEP certified, and even if they were.... to say 'article 690' to them was about as good as saying 'Rt 91' .....
Even the insurance cabal was slow on the uptake, being some of their rooftop installs held little consideration for damages via weight (iirc, our snow load is like 60lbs a sq ft) and/or penetrations
And so the state, in their infinite wisdom of things 'market' bred an entire new trade of hacks, who of course took every opportunity to make a $$$ due to the holes legislated for them
But us EC's are always last on the call list with the 'ol....'just hook it all in' line....
~S~
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 01/01/13 01:27 AM
~s~:
Yes, we have a few hacks still around. There was an uptick in resi solar apps during December, I have no idea why. I'm also not up on the rebate scene.
Yes, we have a few hacks still around. There was an uptick in resi solar apps during December, I have no idea why. I'm also not up on the rebate scene.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 01/01/13 01:40 AM
Most of the initial rebates have ended , at least here, HotOne
They smartened up a bit towards the end, insisting on the NAC cert, but that had it's own spawning of sub-installers who would call in the cert for a %
I did talk to one NH sparky during the height of it, seems he was some sort of solar guru over by the coast, claimed there was this big jihad to legislate solar as license required, not sure how that all sugared off?
Such are the nature of things here , it always seem like doing biz,or public safety is hobbled by either too much bureaucracy, or not enough of it .....
~S~
They smartened up a bit towards the end, insisting on the NAC cert, but that had it's own spawning of sub-installers who would call in the cert for a %
I did talk to one NH sparky during the height of it, seems he was some sort of solar guru over by the coast, claimed there was this big jihad to legislate solar as license required, not sure how that all sugared off?
Such are the nature of things here , it always seem like doing biz,or public safety is hobbled by either too much bureaucracy, or not enough of it .....
~S~
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 01/01/13 02:08 AM
IMHO, the NJ bureaucracy has a reputation of being tough. Sometimes that is very factual, occasionally...not so.
We require a lic for solar. As you implied, there are ways around that. A forbidden subject, and one that is difficult or impossible to do anything about.
That said, we are getting off the subject of this thread. We could start another, or continue via email.
We require a lic for solar. As you implied, there are ways around that. A forbidden subject, and one that is difficult or impossible to do anything about.
That said, we are getting off the subject of this thread. We could start another, or continue via email.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 01/03/13 04:35 AM
John,
I don't have a PV system, so I know little about the rebates. There was something about certificates and when you got so many certificates you were allowed to sell them back to someone. ( POCO?) Anyway, the certificates were going for a lot of money a few years back. ($100?) now though it is a lot less for the certificate. ($20?) The price drop was because everyone was installing PV there for awhile. Now that there are more PV systems, the price per certificate has dropped.
I don't have a PV system, so I know little about the rebates. There was something about certificates and when you got so many certificates you were allowed to sell them back to someone. ( POCO?) Anyway, the certificates were going for a lot of money a few years back. ($100?) now though it is a lot less for the certificate. ($20?) The price drop was because everyone was installing PV there for awhile. Now that there are more PV systems, the price per certificate has dropped.
Re: How's the solar installs??? - 01/03/13 08:48 AM
California law established tranches of favored installations. The early birds -- the first tranche -- received the biggest subsidy -- via a term-limited contract with the Poco -- sancitioned by the State's PUC. (The whole idea came from Sacramento.)
Lest the drain be too much, after X amount of installed, qualifying, capacity was added the tranche was full.
Then a new tranche would start at new, lower rates of subsidy. Each tranche was equal in size. ( megawatts, peak ) IIRC, they ran about 400 Megawatts-peaking.
The subsidy existed within the terms of power pricing when sold -- and when bought back from the residential PV array.
IIRC, at this time, the Poco subsidy has run out the calendar.
IIRC, the Federal subsidy was to end 12-31-2012; but it's the kind of thing that always gets ammended -- even retroactively. The Federal subsidy consists of a hard-money rebate of 30% against the actual installed cost of such a green energy source. (Small hydro and wind also qualified.)
Of course, in the larger scale, all of these schemes are wealth destroyers. They are entirely uneconomic on their own merits -- and by quite a distance, too.
=============
The California scheme is but an echo of the Spanish scheme. That one had no tranche step-downs. It bankrupted their national economy. It grew that large. For a time, it made Germany the world's largest PV manufacturer. (!!!)
The associated trade debts are at the heart of Spains national insolvency within the Euro Zone. Naturally, the MSM both here and in Europe dares not utter a word about the flow of events. Spain's distress is laid in every other direction.
Now, since it's a bleeder, the Poco was and is authorized to supercharge all other Poco rate-payers with sumptuary rates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_tax
Hence, a McMansion has to pay $0.45 per kW-Hr for top Tier electric power. That rate bears no relation to the cost of provision -- it's a tax levied by the State of California in a round-about manner -- using its PUC to goad all the Pocos into line. In this way, the massive tax increase is kept off the State's books.
The average rate-payer has no conception that this tax is ramping the cost of his food -- as every grocery store has to pay large for HVAC power -- and deep into the top tier rates -- even for a commercial user.
(There is no provision for the scale of a business operation. Not surprisingly, such business targets are running around like crazy installing PV arrays -- not for the juice -- but to stay off of the supertaxed billing catagory.)
Consequently, PV installations are exploding.
So is retrofitting LED lighting and smart HVAC.
All conventional EC work is dead.
All of the smaller players are shutting down/ retiring.
And, no EC wants to pay/ can pay for 0bamacare.
CraigsList shows a fantastic ramp in 1099-only job solicitations -- across all trades.
{
California has 5 Tiers within its residential power pricing. The first two are ordinary, not punitive. Tier 3 is $0.25/ kW-Hr ish; Tier 4 is $0.35/ kW-Hr ish; Tier 5 is $0.45/ kW-Hr ish.
Some variation exists depending where you are on the grid and what time of year it is ( Summer | Winter ) but you get the gist. The PUC has already established that even these rates are headed up another dime per kW-Hr by 2014 ish.
}
Our trade sells the installation of equipment that uses electric power. Period, stop.
When that commodity rockets way ahead of inflation and the earnings of the common man -- the need for our craft utterly collapses.
At this time my market is solely concerned with scrapping equipment, swapping to LEDs and to ducking the sumptuary Poco power rates, thereby.
Business is punked.
Lest the drain be too much, after X amount of installed, qualifying, capacity was added the tranche was full.
Then a new tranche would start at new, lower rates of subsidy. Each tranche was equal in size. ( megawatts, peak ) IIRC, they ran about 400 Megawatts-peaking.
The subsidy existed within the terms of power pricing when sold -- and when bought back from the residential PV array.
IIRC, at this time, the Poco subsidy has run out the calendar.
IIRC, the Federal subsidy was to end 12-31-2012; but it's the kind of thing that always gets ammended -- even retroactively. The Federal subsidy consists of a hard-money rebate of 30% against the actual installed cost of such a green energy source. (Small hydro and wind also qualified.)
Of course, in the larger scale, all of these schemes are wealth destroyers. They are entirely uneconomic on their own merits -- and by quite a distance, too.
=============
The California scheme is but an echo of the Spanish scheme. That one had no tranche step-downs. It bankrupted their national economy. It grew that large. For a time, it made Germany the world's largest PV manufacturer. (!!!)
The associated trade debts are at the heart of Spains national insolvency within the Euro Zone. Naturally, the MSM both here and in Europe dares not utter a word about the flow of events. Spain's distress is laid in every other direction.
Now, since it's a bleeder, the Poco was and is authorized to supercharge all other Poco rate-payers with sumptuary rates.
http:/
Hence, a McMansion has to pay $0.45 per kW-Hr for top Tier electric power. That rate bears no relation to the cost of provision -- it's a tax levied by the State of California in a round-about manner -- using its PUC to goad all the Pocos into line. In this way, the massive tax increase is kept off the State's books.
The average rate-payer has no conception that this tax is ramping the cost of his food -- as every grocery store has to pay large for HVAC power -- and deep into the top tier rates -- even for a commercial user.
(There is no provision for the scale of a business operation. Not surprisingly, such business targets are running around like crazy installing PV arrays -- not for the juice -- but to stay off of the supertaxed billing catagory.)
Consequently, PV installations are exploding.
So is retrofitting LED lighting and smart HVAC.
All conventional EC work is dead.
All of the smaller players are shutting down/ retiring.
And, no EC wants to pay/ can pay for 0bamacare.
CraigsList shows a fantastic ramp in 1099-only job solicitations -- across all trades.
{
California has 5 Tiers within its residential power pricing. The first two are ordinary, not punitive. Tier 3 is $0.25/ kW-Hr ish; Tier 4 is $0.35/ kW-Hr ish; Tier 5 is $0.45/ kW-Hr ish.
Some variation exists depending where you are on the grid and what time of year it is ( Summer | Winter ) but you get the gist. The PUC has already established that even these rates are headed up another dime per kW-Hr by 2014 ish.
}
Our trade sells the installation of equipment that uses electric power. Period, stop.
When that commodity rockets way ahead of inflation and the earnings of the common man -- the need for our craft utterly collapses.
At this time my market is solely concerned with scrapping equipment, swapping to LEDs and to ducking the sumptuary Poco power rates, thereby.
Business is punked.