Our POCO (PSE&G) is installing approx. 220,000 of these single panel PV units. They are grid tied only.

What is the output?

Greg:
The specs are supposed to be in my office by Monday or Tuesday at the latest. It's a micro inverter, and tied into the triplex 120/240 or 120/208 secondary on the poles.

FYI, I've had a few townsfolk call up to inquire, and a few asking if 'they have permits', and one who screamed 'what ..... approved that?'

Greg:
They are 200 watt panels, info and specs are at

www.Petrasolar.com

It is an interesting experiment. From what you said about your electric rates it will save about 20 cents a day

That .20 cents a day, times 220k panels equates to about $44k. But, it's not saving me; it's all POCO (PSE&G) owned.

If you are a customer, it is still your money.
My guess is those panels are about $1700 each retail based on my shopping but I am sure PSE&G got a price break buying close to a quarter million of them. Too bad they weren't made in the USA. We could use the jobs.

I read the white paper about the "Up" system but I am curious how they know if each unit is working. Driving around checking them manually will gobble up that profit pretty fast.
They do talk about remote communication but it was not clear what that does. Is it remote metering?

Greg:
I noticed on some units a device mounted underside of the panel with an antenna, which I think is some type of wireless comm. This may be what they show on the mfg site.

These devices are 'utility' owned & installed, so I have no Twp info. However within the next 2 weeks, I expect to have some 'un-official' data from my POCO contacts.

The other panels at the 'Big' site are from another mfg.

I suppose they call home every once in a while with performance data. That is really the only way to know they are working without going up the pole.

Thinking about it...IF each panel has a comm device.....that has to jack the unit cost up at or near $1k with the mounting hardware, wouldn't you think??

220k panels @ $1000 is $220,000,000, that's a tough nut!

A simple transponder would only add a buck or two to the cost of the inverter, that is a fairly small price to pay in the grand scheme of things to see if each panel is working. It may just be a "go/no go" signal not quantitative numbers.

Andrew posted an interesting comment in the photo gallery about this.

His comment...'how much is it going to cost to clean the 220k panels annually'?

Any comments guys??

It is a good question. If these things collect snow they will be basically out of service. I suppose regular dirt also cuts the output too. I guess in the end it will be a cost benefit thing. We figured these things generate about 22 cents a day (retail rate) How often can you send a guy up in a bucket truck to get the last nickel a day out of them and still make economic sense?
I suppose you could come up with a squeegee and sponge deal on a non-conductive pole so these could be cleaned from the ground. It might be a make work job for about 250 people if you cleaned them once a month.

One large rooftop install (675KW) on a bldg with a severe gull issue has a guy on the roofs weekly. The bldg installed hose bibs at the roofs.

They also have a contractor to low pressure clean the panels every 4-6 weeks, dependent on the feathers, poop & assorted other items on the roofs.

This install cut the utility bill by 40% for the refrig/cliamate controlled whse operation.

http://www.pilkingtonselfcleaningglass.co.uk/

I guess maybe this article fits here

Imagine outfitting your house with small, affordable solar panels that plug into a socket and pump power into your electrical system instead of taking it out.

That's the promise of a Seattle, Washington-based start-up that is working to provide renewable energy options -- solar panels and wind turbines -- for homes and small businesses. The panels cost as little as $600 and plug directly into a power outlet.

The company, Clarian Power, aims to be the first to bring a plug-in solar power system to the market, in 2011.

Clarian's president, Chad Maglaque, says the company's product is different from existing micro-inverters, which convert solar panels' power into AC current. Maglaque says his system has built-in circuit protection, doesn't require a dedicated electrical panel and plugs directly into a standard electrical outlet.

CNN talked with Maglaque to find out more about this system. Here's a transcript of our conversation, edited for length and clarity.

~S~

John,


Along route 80 up here there are small PV systems like that on emergency tel call boxes. So that if a commuter gets stuck, they can always call for help.

I have friends that have built a house around the 49th parallel or the same latitude as the US Canada border. The house is located in the country and placed on the property to get the maximum solar gain for the passive collectors. Large masonry and rock collector. Solar water heaters and solar PV with battery back up and grid tie for the rare days where the batteries are charged and the sun is high. The house is very efficient in terms of its ability to collect heat from the sun in the winter and reflect it in the summer. The water heaters are efficient enough to boil water in the summer and 1 panel must be covered in the summer. The PV Will never pay back the installation cost or ongoing maintenance and battery replacement. It would have been better cost benefit to install a generator but they are very green oriented so choosing between a generator and PV with battery was a philosophical choice rather than a cost and recovery choice. They are subject to power failures and sometimes days may pass before they get it restored in a rural area.
I wonder how solar PV can payback in Seattle? unless the application is so low power how is it ever going to payback the investment?
The house is very efficient and I think that they will get all their heat from passive sources including cooking but the electricity from solar is pretty poor at this latitude.
Sign me wondering the value of solar north of 40?

It would be an interesting cost study to compare the small home sized generator and solar PV. I think that by the time you buy the generator, keep it fed with fuel and do the normal maintenance the solar might start looking attractive. I know the people around here who lived off of generators after a hurricane were quickly woken up as to how much it costs to "feed the monster".
If I was going that way it would certainly be a commercial diesel gen set and I would still expect it to be expensive. Utility power may be the best deal in the world.

No question. generating electricity is expensive. Very few people here try to heat with a gen set. Usually the fridge, a couple of lights and any mechanical services that must work. Sump pumps, furnace motors, etc.

It is more efficient to heat by burning something if you are off grid, for whatever reason.

Harold:
Yes, there are a few 'other' small solar setups in town. The Raritan Center Railroad has a few for some type of signaling or crossing system. I'll scope them out, time permitting.

Greg:
Back in '05 at the PGA tournement, we burned 102k gallons of diesel (99.9% in gensets) and about 2k gal of reg gas over 9 days. Good thing the majority of the gens were diesels!

John,
My ex foreman ( now in his own business) lives way up north in Sussex and there is a farmer up there with both PV panels on roof and a wind turbine in the yard. He is generating so much power that his electric bill is under $10 per month. I don't know what his original bill was, or how much the 2 systems cost to install. I am sure it wasn't cheap!

When my wife was prairie building a community (no power, water or roads) they ran the construction trailer off of a 36kva generator and they figured it was costing 40-50 cents a KWH by the time they rented the generator and bought the fuel.

Their website makes it clear that their experts are ready and able to justify higher rates to the various PUCs across the land when required to 'take advantage of solar.'

How nice of them!

Bottom line: it's a boondongle designed to transfer USD from our pockets to this project.

I guess I am all for solar systems, but you still have to think, what do you do with the panels after they all start to fail? Are this system safe in the fact that if there is a fire on/in the house, will firemen be safe from the DC voltage that the panels are putting out? You would have to remove all of the panels in order to replace the roof. Other than that! Maybe if the panels were installed on the ground and away from the house, I would feel safer.

The solar company I was talking to did offer ground mounting for the panels but when you start laying them out on the ground you figure out how big they really are. Shadows are more of a problem in the ground too since level low shrubs will be a problem in the winter. In my case it is an oak tree that is not on my property.
It is kind of ironic that to cut green house gasses we may have to cut down trees.

Our big installation here in Chicago is completed and online.

It's mounted with the low end of the angled panels about 2 feet off the ground and I now have one word to explain why ground mounting isn't the best of ideas...

WEEDS.

It is all part of the stimulus package.
They have to hire a crew to weed eat, then they need another crew to wash the dirt off the panels from the weed eater. Those crews need a supervisor and a union rep. They will both need lawyers. Pretty soon you have a whole industry that comes up around this free electricity.

Around here in north NJ some of the farmers are installing them in their fields. It helps them with bills and power to their barns.

Harold:

I came accross panels on trackers (monopole mount) at a newer winery in Ocean County. Nice setup with the tracker. Manager said there are almost a dozen on the vineyard grounds.

I'm not used to being a country boy anymore! It was nice to discover the 'country' areas of Ocean County.

Bump!

Just in case anybody is looking for this.