Ummm, mental deficiency comes to mind.

Seriously, many of these guys have no background in electrical or construction and usually don't have a clue about how things are done. You see that in the IT realm as well. Unfortunately these areas require wiring to be run and this is what you can expect when these guys handle it.

-Hal

I think the real answer is they don't have to contain the splices in a box like you do with line voltage. The only function of the cut in box is to mount the plate. Most wall terminations are nothing but a mud ring to carry the keystone plate and the splice hanging in the wall cavity.

Ah, yes....those cut-in rings will be the subject of another pic soon.

I wait with baited breath!

... they don't have to contain the splices in a box like you do with line voltage. The only function of the cut in box is to mount the plate. Most wall terminations are nothing but a mud ring to carry the keystone plate and the splice hanging in the wall cavity.

Naww, those guys use plastic boxes for everything, they don't know enough to use a mud ring.


-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 07-07-2005).]

As far as I know... It does not say a floor box has to be listed only when it's line voltage. If this is for tel/data it is still a violation in my mind. And the person who put it in aught to know better. As it is not only a NEC violation, I believe other building codes as well, which I believe to clearly state that the 'box and cover support the wieght of a 350Lbs woman standing on the heel of a single high heeled shoe'. Or at least thats what I tell customers who ask why that floor access box cost $500.

Hal,
Respectfully, why don't you just shut-up! I am sick to death of your constant bashing of VDV contractors on this and other message boards. You're distain for any technology developed after 1950 is quite obvious in your hundreds of negative posts. If you and the EC's would like, we can start a flame war, I'm all for it. I have a hard drive chock full of pic's of shoddy not to code work performed by supposed telco guy's and reputable EC's, so bring it on!

Datadude,
If you have some thing to share, I am very sure we would all like to see it. But personal attacks like the one you just launched on Hal, well, just are not very productive. Although Hal has some very stern opinions, and often wise advise on what you should and should not do with Cat-5 wiring, I don't think what you just hammered on you keyboard was called for.

Mark

Datadude seems to be one of the many problems that has come up with the explosion of technology and everybody so bent on getting rich off of it, but not worrying about the quality and or safety of the things they are installing, Hal is a professional with strong opinions that I feel have a lot of experience behind them and I understand that it is frustrating to see people doing things like this floor box that will fall thru the floor given the right amount of weight is placed in the right place. Datadude is the type of person to give good low-volt guys a bad reputation.

This is just the chronic divide between the electrIC and electrONIC industry. Someday there will be a merger but until then I suppose there will be little wizzing matches.
It is so bad around here that my favorite builder can't use the Arlington combo box http://www.aifittings.com/whnew50.htm
because the LV and line volt ECs can't agree who mounts the box and if the other guy's wire can come up into it. The customer ends up with 2 plates somewhat near each other that seldom line up. :-(

I just call it as I see it.

Like it or not there is a convergence of technology today and we all need to learn something of each other's jobs if we are going to be proficient in our own work. Unfortunately there is a certain resistance, even animosity by many audio, video and IT people for things like codes, licenses and learning workmanship and trade practices. Just because somebody is Microsoft certified or has access to equipment doesn’t mean that they are qualified to install it and can thumb their nose at code requirements.

If there is anything I’m old school about it’s insisting on doing a job professionally. If you don’t want to take the time to learn the ropes you shouldn’t be doing the job.


-Hal

Hello, Datadude...I don't think you and I have conversed before.

I am an EC, and I also, on occasion, do VDV work. I have one of the braodest licenses in my state. That said, I freely admit that VDV is one of my weakest areas, and I quite often end up working only the "power" part of a job.

My purpose in posting this pic- and others like it- is to get the feedback from VDV guys. I really want to know if these practices- which seem so strange to me, but seem common in the VDV field, really up to the "current standard of the trade," or if the contractor whose work is pictured is cutting corners.

I've seen VDV guys being shown how to use a toner on Friday, then present themselves as experts the following Wednesday. I does seem that there is a lack of structured training (such as an apprenticeship). Maybe I'm wrong.

Visit a few of our other forums, and you'll see that we post plenty of pics ourselves of "hack" electrical work.
What I'd really like to see, though, is a pic to post in this thread of such an install done correctly.

Your damn right I take it personaly. We go out of our way to train our techicians in the proper tecniques and workmanship of the trade. I have a LV restricted Masters license, so we pull our own permits, or work under the EC's. All of our work is commercial, and is, and must be, inspected. Yes, I take it personal when LV guys are lumped together as one big group of computer geek carrot hackers. VDV is a trade unto itself and we take pride in our work. I'll put my company's work up against anybody's anyday.
That being said, to Hal, I apologize, my temper gets the best of me sometimes. I guess it's best for me just to stay off this board.
Bob

I am trained in both directions with IBM/BICSI on the data side and IAEI/ICBO/SBCCI on the power side. I have to say there was very little common material in these trainings. The data side seems to ignore everything in the NEC below article 725 and then slices it at class 2, largely ignoring class 1 rules. In the power side they treat everything like it was DC circuits. (certainly nothing higher than 400hz).
I have lived on both sides of the wizzing match so I understand the problems. As the codes start to catch up with low voltage I think we will start to see wiring practices becoming a little more uniform but we will always be stuck with the reality that power wiring is regulated to stop fires and electrocution where data wiring is basically addressing data integrity alone. Inspectors are usually only concerned with spread of fire and smoke issues when they look at data.
Compared to data, a doorbell is a high power, high current application.

We go out of our way to train our techicians in the proper tecniques and workmanship of the trade. I have a LV restricted Masters license, so we pull our own permits, or work under the EC's. All of our work is commercial, and is, and must be, inspected. Yes, I take it personal when LV guys are lumped together as one big group of computer geek carrot hackers.

Well then what the heck were you complaining about? There are plenty of guys here who are telecom/data contractors, myself included and I like to think we do things right as you do.

It's the "computer geek carrot hackers" that get us p***ed off not legitimate contractors.

-Hal

NA Datadude, no need to go anywhere. I'm sure I can speak for the rest of us on this point, we need more people who take pride in thier work, and enjoy having them on these forums. We often openly welcome and ecourage people when we see that 'New Member' moniker. I think we all took a jump at you for the rather person jab at Hal. As for the most part, we try to keep it clean and stick to the biz, of the post. Not saying that things don't get heated in debate on occassion. We just try, or attempt to keep it in lighter language than, "Shut Up".

So anyway, stick around, and a belated welcome to the forum.

Hi Hal....

Oh anyway, today, I got to use my usual line again.

"that the 'box and cover must support the wieght of a 350Lbs woman standing on the heel of a single high heeled shoe"

GC almost fell over.

Never mind the floor box...where can I buy a pair of these titanium high heels?

Do you need them in steel toe for work?