Anybody in North Carolina do any sq. ft. pricing on new installations? Got a customer that has a 2 story garage, and wants to put living quarters on top. He just wants a "ball park" price for now, and I don't want to have to go in detail right now because I don't know if he's serious or not. Downstairs in the garage area he's just wanting recpts. for work bench etc.. garage door openers..
etc...It's been a long time since I've bid on a new house or anything like that and don't know the going price. I'm thinking it's around $ 2.75 per sq. ft. but I'm not sure. Can anyone give me sort of an idea? I know sq. ft. pricing is not the best way to go, but just for a "ball park" estimate, it's the quickest. Thanks a lot for your help. The reason I stated North Carolina is that I know the prices up north and far south are usually a lot higher than in North Carolina... Thanks again. Steve

This is the kind of thing where one of the CAD programs is helpful, at least for the 210.52 outlets. Even the cheapest little program like 3d architect will place all the receptacles so you have an idea what you are bidding on. O would think, the smaller the footprint, the bigger chance for errors in square ft pricing.

I can place the receptacles for the 6/12 rule using a scale or a compass in very little time.

Why not just give a price based on xx recpts, xx switches and come up with a quick estimate?

Sq Ft pricing does not work for EC's.

You use you lose.

If this is an existing home , you probably want to look at the length and difficulty of the home runs .
You could spend as much time on them as the rough in .
Also space in panel . On a small job , those can bite you .

No print, no price. You just can't hit a moving target.

Thanks for the input, but job came to a quick hault when I called the inspection dept. They told me the garage was permitted to be a garage and storage, not for bedrooms etc..
They said it would have to be re-permitted and then that would involve something done about the existing septic tank. Probably won't happen. This property sets right on the lake front and inspector thinks they'll be problems for the homeowner updating his septic tank. Thanks anyway. If it gets done it won't be by me, cause I would have to get a permit. Thanks anyway...

Hmmm.....
"Thanks anyway. If it gets done it won't be by me, cause I would have to get a permit. Thanks anyway..." (sparkync)

Leaves food for thoughts??

I don't use square foot pricing to arrive at a quote, not even a ballpark budget for the customer. I DO use a per square foot figure after the job is quoted to compare it to other similar recent jobs. It helps me keep a mental picture about what is driving costs in more complex projects. Here in Hood River OR we are way above the $2.75 figure you mentioned. For instance I just quoted a 2200 sq. ft. house that is upscale but by no means ultra fancy for about $16000.00 and I'm pretty sure I'll get the project, maybe with some minor negotiating.

A parallel occurs to me ...

Just as I have great difficulty taking a picture that has just ONE code violation in it, it seems that 'clever' folks practice their hustle in several directions at once.

While a 'square foot price' might have some role in analyzing a job, it (just like your 'hourly shop rate') has absolutely no role in preparing an estimate.

Why? Because then the focus is on the rate, rather than what needs to be done. It reduces you to a commodity - a path that leads directly to the trunk of the local, unlicensed, 'handy' sort.

Just as the old DI used to harrass recruits by asking them 'how long is a rope?', asking 'how much per square foot' is meaningless without first knowing what the job involves. Without a plan, that's a wild guess at best.

Oh, I get it ... YOU are supposed to spend your time making the plan ... share it with the customer ... and take a chance. How about the customer first paying for your design work? Mention that idea; I bet their look will be priceless.

John, I'm sorry I didn't understand your reply. My meaning was that I couldn't do it without getting a permit. There was already a building permit pulled for the job, and since the inspection department wasn't going to allow the type of wiring he wanted done without getting his original permit changed to one that included living quarters, I couldn't do it the way he wanted to. Now when he comes back from vacation, and wants to re-classify his permit, then I would consider it. Probably just a matter of miscommunications here. Thanks....
The reason I mentioned sq.ft. pricing is that when I first went full time in my business, I had to sub contract from another electrical contractor. That was way back in 2000 before a lot of code changes. I was doing a few houses and apartments at $ 1.65 to $ 1.75 a square ft. And no I wasn't making much money. I figured it up at the time, and I would come out making around $ 25.00 to $ 27.00 an hour. Not enough to run a business on, but it was better than nothing at the time. That's one reason I don't go out of my way to do new houses. It is so competitive here, it's not worth it to me. A lot of hard work for barely nothing.
I am getting a little smarter the older I get. Thanks again:)

SparkyNC:
No problem, I understand ya now.

Conversions of garages/basements etc., without the required permits here happens, and occasionally a Lic EC was involved.

Does anyone ever get a permit when they finish their basement?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there's "finishing a basement" and FINISHING a basement.

When I was five, we had a 'finished basement.' That is, we put whitewash on the walls, threw down an old rug, and set up a card table. During various get-togethers, the water heater, duct work and sewer pipes provided plenty of convenient places to set drinks, etc.

Today, my folks have another 'finished basement.' This one required sewer tie-ins for the various sinks and bathrooms they added. The HVAC had to be altered. Bedrooms were added.

I think most homeowners can figure out that when you're remodeling to that extent, a permit is probably needed. Following "Holmes on Homes," a common thread in botched jobs is that the contractor claims that no permit is needed.

While we can't speak for the homeowner, as contractors we're supposed to know better. In Reno, the rule was that more than a 10 ft. run needed a permit.

Do code rules / code enforcement improve things? I have my doubts. When a neighbor in Reno discovered that adding bedrooms in his basement required additional exits, etc., the job got 'cancelled.' In reality, the job got moved from the market of legitimate contractors to the market of itinerent handymen.

This neighbor is a good example of a certain mindset. Well up the seniority ladder in one of Reno's rare union-scale jobs, he makes more than most professionals in that town - yet, he is convinced that everyone else 'charges too much.'
He makes $65/hr, pluse benes ... and he consideres a $25/hr, no benefits journeyman to be overpaid? A $90/hr shop rate too much?

This man drives a truck, and he believes that makes him smart enough to fix cars, build houses, etc., ... with no need to bother with first learning those trades. And, should Mike Holmes show up, he'll be the loudest to proclaim that someone else steered him wrong.

With folks like this neighbor in mind, I believe that a lot of folks who complain they were taken advantage of had actually forced the situation on themselves.

Tell me your end goal, pay my bill, stay out of the way. It's not that hard.

Most of the basement "finishing" I saw growing up were incremental projects over a period of years. Each one probably seemed too trivial to require a permit but the overall result was.

My main reason for this type of permit:
1) my liability ins.
2) the HO home insurance,
If something were to happen,try to collect the extra 10/15K on the finished space if no one knew about it.

In Florida, the only one who can really get in trouble for unpermitted activity is a licensed trade. That is a warning to guys who just want to "help out a buddy".

Friends I got- money I don't.

Cops also are just 'revenue' enhancement officers.
Who may run into a bunch of poop real fast.
I respect that. But keep me safe and my money in my pocket.

CYA- is the order of the day. For both.

The 'finished basement' situation recently has reared it head, during re-sales SFDs. A Notice of Violation for non-permitted, non-inspected work is issued to the HO with a $500 to $2000 fine levied. We refer them 'as-builts' when the HO comes in for the permits required to bring the property records up to date. A 'sketch' of the floor plan, a water and sanitary riser diagram (if plumbing installed). A sketch of the lighting/recept layout is also submitted.

The inspection process is 'visual' basically, and IF any major violations/safety issues are observed, wall opening, etc., will be required.

Usually, the 'unknown' persons who did the work are not discovered, the HO pay the fines and permit fees, and on occasion have to hire Lic professionals to make required corrections.

PS: This is one of my 'favorites' when the HO who is selling, chimes in " I'm closing on Friday, could you expedite the permits??"

i agree with Tesla, square ft pricing just doesnt work for Electrical, If you were Framing this project that square ft pricing would apply