What sparky hasn't thought of one day having his own license? Heck - what first year apprentice doesn't look to the day he 'goes solo?'

Well, with the retirement of my long-time business partner, that's exactly what I get to do these days. I suppose you could say I'm doing it under the most favorable of conditions: support of "the boss," established customers, and an established reputation.

I thought I'd start this thread as a 'reality check,' as well as a 'blog,' of the process as it develops. I'm sure many will find it enlightening - and some will surely have some old memories come back!

Feel free to comment - that's what makes ECN work

Anyway, here the process began with my submitting a 32 page application, together with a 5 page financial statement ... and paying a $300 application fee. Part of the application were five notarized statements as to the minimum five years' worth of journeyman level work. This paperwork was submitted on June 3rd.

After two weeks' of review, I was granted permission to take the tests. One on the trade, and one on contracting / business law. To begin with, I got to buy a book ($40) on Nevada law .... and dig out my 99 NEC.

Scheduling the tests was more of a challenge, and I wasn't able to take them until yesterday (July 10th). The test center expressed surprise that I was taking both at once, that I finished early, and that I managed to pass both. Another hurdle overcome.

Now I have to do four more things in order to get the contractors' license:
-1 Post a $2000 bond. I can either go to an insurance agency ($100/yr), or put up my own money ($200/yr processing fee in addition to the $2000);
-2 Pay the license fee ($600/ 2 yrs.);
-3 Pay for Workmans' comp, or sign the necessary waiver; and,
- 4 Pay $200/yr into the "residential recovery fund." (I thought only tract builders had to do that!)

Once these requirements are met, I will be issued a license number. Then I can do the "other" paperwork, for everyone else:
-1 Obtain an ID number from the IRS;
-2 Obtain a tax certificate from the State;
-3 Pay the State employment tax ($25/quarter/person);
-4 Register company name with the County; and,
-5 Get a city business license.

Only after all these steps are complied with can I open bank accounts, print up stationary, and actually start contracting for work.

Then of course, it will be time to make the first quarterly tax payments ...

That bond seems low. I think it is $75,000 for a full EC license in Florida and the limited low voltage license was $10,000 when I was looking at it 10 years ago.

Anyway, good luck in your new endeavor. I know this is a slow time to start a business but that could be a good thing. It gives you a chance to learn.

BTW if you have a sharp pencil on your schedule C, I doubt if you will really "make" much money for a while.
The IRS doesn't expect you to and if you are good at itemizing your start up expenses you probably won't.
The hardest part of running a business is actually the business part, not the trade part but when you master that you are on your way to a satisfying career.

Interesting to see what you have to do to open up as Reno Electric . In Maine you can just start up once you get a Masters. I know guys who have their sales tax paid at the wholesale house and don't even have a tax number for resale. No contractor license needed, no city business license.

Looks like things are just a wee bit simpler in your neck of the woods, Walrus.

I'd have to go through nearly every one of these same hoops even is I simply 'took over' the existing business. In fact, that's pretty much what I'm doing ... but, absent any advantage, I might as well give it my own name. Since the existing business is now "John Smith dba Electrical," with me at the helm it would become "Reno dba Electrical," so even the county filing would still be necessary.

I'm not completely clear as to the sales tax issue; I think it's similar to your arrangement, but I need to make sure.

The real shocker for me was the nearly $1500 in fees to the Contractors' board alone .... with about $600 repeating every year. This is about double what I had expected - AFTER talking with the board a few times. I almost feel like I'm dealing with a GC

Sounds like it's almost enough to discourage somebody from starting a business. I passed my ec exam two weeks ago and am now waiting on the liscensing paperwork to come through. I'm in the middle of transitioning a fully incorporated electrical business from my dad to myself. All that's required when I get the liscense is to change ownership and names on paperwork. Everything is in the company's name. Total fees to get liscense -$90.00.

Hope it goes well. We're all pulling for you.

It sure seems like that when your looking down the barrel schenimann, but everything makes sense when you break it down.

If nothing else, all the hurdles help to weed out (some of) the undesireables that would seek to make and "easy" buck at the expense of all of our reputations.

By the way, best of luck to you Reno! I see no reason that you wouldn't succeed in grand fashion.

One bit of advise for you and everyone starting in this or any business - PAPERWORK. Stay on top of it. Record EVERYTHING, and never get lazy with documentation or detailed notes. If you ever do, it will bite you in the booty.

The entire concept of licensing has been asserted by some ... including Milton Friedman, as little but a sham on the part of those already licensed to restrain trade. That is, to reduce competition.

Many studies have shown little -or no- correlation between licensing and incompetent / dishonest trade practices.

I do know that, if I treated a customer the way the contractors' board has behaved, and they complained, I would be disciplined. The statement as to fees required led me to expect a figure $500 lower.

However, this is not a rant against the contractors' board. I hope I've also identified some of the other hurdles to be overcome, and paperwork to be completed.

Another development has been all the "best friends" I am suddenly finding
Two realtors have expressed great interest in hiring me when I get my own license .... why my current license is unacceptable to them, I fail to understand. There is absolutely no bar to my working -the license holder hasn't retired yet- but they want to wait.
Others have hastened to put me in contact with other contractors they have dealt with ... not one of whom is licensed, and several seem to have departed California recently, just ahead of the law.
Then there are the real contractors, with limited licenses (mine will be unlimited as to type of electrical work) who seem to think my main reason for going into business is to feed them jobs. Or, they are trying to discover my customer base. I'm sure their motives are pure
Finally, there are the salesmen, who insist I must use their forms, their billing software, their forms templates, etc. That I am already holding in hand perfectly acceptable paperwork doesn't seem to discourage them at all. As for a web site .... trust me, when that time comes - I already have plenty of sources.

A new hurdle has been discovered ...

It appears that a 'squatter' has filed for the name I wish to use, with the county. That is, this person has absolutely no connection with the trade, with contracting, and operatyes no company. My preliminary search suggests that the name was filed solely for the purpose of selling it, or generating nuisance suits.

On the plus side, his work appears to be that of an amateur, and it will be quite easy to defeat.

Let today's efforts emphasize the importance of paying attention to detail.

I wish to operate as "Amish Electric." No power- no problem ... seems simple enough!

A local gent had registered the name with the county. However, the county filing offers exactly ZERO protection. All it accomplishes is that it allows you to enforce your contracts. As far as the county is concerned, there can be a hundred firms with exactly the same name.

The 'squatter' is not in the trade, registered with the state's corporations office (Secretary of State), and has no city business license. He is not electrician, apprentice, or contractor. His squatting effort is a failure.
My registration of the name with the Secretary of State will protect it for 90 days - plenty of time for me to get issued the license number. Once I have that number, I'm pretty well set as far as the name is concerned.

Another gent - this one in Illinois - is squatting on the 'dot com' version. Alas for him, there is absolutely no bar to being 'dot net' or 'dot biz.' Well, there is now - I've got 'dot biz.' Give me a few days to figure out how to use it.

Great name.
Bear in mind the jokes write themselves when people are mad at you but when they love you it will be easy to remember your name.
When I left IBM, thinking about doing that sort of stuff, I registered with the county as "Blue Light" and my tag line was "Same quality less fat" (an IBM joke)

Where I screwed up was not in registering bluelight.com before Kmart figured it out.

Well, the papers are in, and the fees paid ... I ought to receive a license Monday.

My first attempt to post bond failed ... because the paperwork was handwritten, and not typed. That is, the agent filled in the blanks on the board-supplied form by hand, rather than typing. Bureaucracy in inaction.

I still have hoops to jump through with the city and the state.

I am -temporarily- without workmans' comp. lacking employees, I am not REQUIRED to have it ... so I signed the waiver just to get the paper moving on the license. I am actively seeking a carrier. The eagerness of some agents is beginning to scare me.

Strange to hear that there is no limit to companies with the same name. Over here years ago there was a shoe store and a clothing store with the same first name. I believe one was forced to add a line stating that they were not associated with the other so consumers did not get confused.

When I went to register my company the State did a check to see if the name was available.Luckily it was, otherwise I would have needed another name for the company. They also checked for similar names so no one would get confused.

Jim, it can be a touchy situation, and many millions of dollars have been earned by the lawyers in trademark cases. Because the name of a business is the ultimate trademark.

The example you cited had one crucial detail: there were two actual business using either the same name, or a name so similar as to cause confusion. Other factors also come into play ... for example, whether they share a market, are in similar lines of work, just how unique the name may be, etc.

The local guy doesn't have a business, by definition, as he hasn't asked for a business license. He's not, in any way, involved in the electrical trade. Nor is he Amish. He's not Amish, Not electrical, and not a business. At most, his filing a "dba" was wishful thinking, that never ripened.

The Illinois guy took advantage of the early internet to grab up web names, with the intent of selling them at a premium. He was banking on a 'first come, first titled' practice by the internet providers. There was once a time when 'net squatters' would register every possible name to themselves .... many large companies found themselves fighting for the right to use their own names, names that they had been using for generations.
A few laws, court cases, and political efforts later, the internet providers saw the wisdom in restoring some sanity to the mess. Today, you're not allowed to simply hold a name. While the requirements are trivial, and easy to meet, you need to have some claim to the name beyond registering it.
Probably the biggest blow to the domain squatters was the opening of new domains. No longer are you limited to "com;" there are 'biz,' 'net,' 'us,' and a multitude of others. While I could probably force the guy to surrender the name (I have the business, and he doesn't) ... the easiest thing for me to do was to take the 'biz' and 'net' domains.

While a bit dated - it was published before the internet revolution - the best work I've seen on this topic is the book "Intellectual Property Law," published by the Illinois Institute of Continuing Legal Education.

Well ... it finally came through.

"Amish Electric" has been issued Nevada contractors' license #71487. This is a C-2 electrical contracting license, unlimited as to type of electrical work.

Go get'm!

So far, the response has been surprising - in several ways.

Just for bragging, I've given business cards to several long-time acquaintances. A surprising number have immediately asked me to do some work. I'm spending quite a bit of time scouting jobs this week.

One of my customers took me to a breakfast, held weekly, by his networking group. Not a bad show, no long speeches or sales pitches, business cards passed around. Amazingly enough, it seems the guy in the group doing home remodels is completely lacking in any contracting licenses I'll have to look a bit more carefully before I leap in with that group!

My guess is the guy "doing" home improvements is selling/brokering GCs.
He is either letting them run the job or he is just using their license to pull permits.
That is really how most national builders work. Centex just had a GC on staff that they used for all the permits and everyone else (the people who actually build the houses) was some kind of manager.

I hope you're right .... but I would have thought he would have been interested in meeting the only sparky in the group.
Besides electrical work, his card also claimed plumbing - another specialty license.

However you slice it, it's not a promising start!

It depends. If he is on the up and up and is only brokering licensed trades it might be a good thing ... if he is a good salesman.
At a certain point everyone needs a rainmaker from time to time to go out there and drum up some business.
If this guy is willing to sell the job, deal with the customer and be sure to get the check he may be valuable to all of you.

Maybe I am just too optimistic

If I am wrong you can always drop a dime on him.

As I said, I will check further.

It's a pretty fine line ... there's a term for the person who hires contractors to do a job; we call them "General contractors," and they need to be licensed.

Sure, there is some 'wiggle room' for others, such as architects, property managers, realtors, interior designers, etc. My preliminary chat with the contractors' board suggests that THEIR opinion is that the guy needs a GC license.

However it shakes out, it is a lesson on point: not everyone you meet is necessarily your friend. Or, as an old saying has it: Trust your mother- but still cut the deck!

When I first started my business I joined a networking group,I think I paid 300.00 a year for the membership.
Be careful when picking the group to join because not all members take networking seriously. I got about 5000.00 in business over the 6 months I was a member. The group was dissolved because there were two women fighting over who was more qualified to be President of the group. Too much politics. You are also required to be there every week and if you can't make it you must have a substitute. I was happy to leave the group because I need my mornings to get the guys ready for the day.

I spoke with the nominal head of this group, and - amazing! - he had also noticed that the guy was contracting without a license. He then asked me what I planned to do. I suggested that having an unqualified person in the group was a recipe for disaster.

In other news.....

A customer, who just LOVED me as I had been recommended to him by a previous customer .... was most unhappy with my bill - though I had given him an estimate in advance. I'm having a chat with the person who referred him tomorrow.

I also got my first call from an attorney - another person I get to meet tomorrow. The subject is previous job, where the issues are primarily plumbing. All I did was plug in a pump. The main parties in dispute are the customer, and their landlord.

Gee, nothing like my "first week" for excitement! Now, if only some of that excitement transforms into income!

At least today started off with a smile: I succeeded in getting a waterfall pump operating. It's amazing how many things went wrong with that circuit. The gardener got one thing right, though ... while he used plumbing PVC for the feeder run, at least he also used sweeps (and not plumbing ells).

I 'dropped a dime' on the make-believe GC. I've already met one person who was not impressed by his painting and plastering .. I can't wait to see his electrical work!

I gave the CUSStomer a bid that I am certain he will discard - and just as well! Besides the rates going UP (rather than the result he wanted), I also want some hefty deposits. I'll risk my time, but not my money.

Sounds like your putting all the time you have hung out at this site to work. Good job and good luck.

I wish you luck. I have always dreamed about being and EC. I got my license and insurance. Started picking up work weeknights and weekends. I found out I am not good with Home owners. I only did the work for 1.5 years. I am an industrial guy. Why I thought about residential is beyond me.

Anyway about 2 months ago I rethought everything and I started another company not EC but a technical service (Temp work) Not sure how it will go. A little easier starting than an EC. One funny thing is the contractors tell me I am their competitor. I was like huh? oh well

Best of luck.

ken

This thread has become your personal blog. You should actually look into setting up a blog. You could have some Google Adsense ads and maybe make a buck or two.