ECN Forum
Posted By: willfescon Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/28/07 05:21 PM
I've been in business for less than a year. Mostly small stuff my biggest job contracted so far has been less than $2000. Most of my jobs are in the $75 to $200 range. So I don't make a large monthly order. I have 2 supply house accounts set up in my business name, CES and Grainger. Grainger is so overpriced I haven't bought anything since the first purchase I made when I opened the account. CES is more reasonable, but my prices on wire are 15% to 20% higher than prices at Home Depot or Lowe's. Is this common or am I just getting ripped off. I went to HD/formerly Hughes supply yesterday and their rates are about the same as what I'm paying at CES. Should I expect this, all of the contractors I always worked for previously tried to stay away from home depot/lowe's for stuff we had to buy. So I'm assuming the supply houses are giving other
contrators prices equal or lower than the big retail supply stores Home depot and lowes'. Any advice on negotiating to get reasonable rates? The supply houses tell me that home depot actually takes a loss on the wire they sell, i say that is complete bs. there is no way they would considering the price of wire and how much of it they sell.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/28/07 06:06 PM
I doubt that HD is taking a loss on anything, but with their purchasing volume with General Cable, they probably buy millions of feet per month. I'm sure that this, combined with buying directly from the manufacturer, they get it at a much lower cost than many supply houses. Same thing with Lowe's and Southwire. Even the bigger (national) supply houses probably don't purchase with that kind of volume.

I do find that staple items, such as cable and plastic boxes are cheaper at the home centers than at supply houses. Both HD and Lowe's have commercial sales desks and will offer certain discounts based upon your monthly purchasing volume. You need to ask them about it. I have a commercial account with both and I think that I get slightly better pricing than the advertised prices. Honestly, I haven't checked lately.

Grainger is great for those hard-to-find items, but I'd never buy any kind of electrical supplies from them unless it's a 600 volt pin/sleeve connector or something like that. With them, you are paying a premium for the convenience. I haven't bought anything from them in years, but they sure do come in handy when you are looking for that strange reversing starter. I must say that their inventory is mighty impressive to say the least. I don't mind paying more for that kind of stuff.

To answer your question, I really don't think that you are being ripped off. Discounts revolve around purchasing volume, and like you said yourself, your purchasing is relatively low. I know it's a Catch 22 situation, if you could get better pricing, you could do more volume, but the suppliers aren't going to take the risk. They expect you to make the first move.

Don't forget that the big box stores are very competitive with each other. If Lowe's has Romex at a price less than HD, HD will match and sometimes even beat it. Again, it's a matter of asking the question. Hope this offers you some insight.
Posted By: KJay Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/28/07 06:40 PM
I have often marveled at how HD and other big box stores can sell certain materials at retail, below what I can get them for at my supposedly wholesale suppliers. They don’t sell at a loss, they just negotiate directly with manufactures and distributors for better volume pricing, and remove the middleman [suppliers] from the process. I don’t like that they sell these materials to non-trades people though, but now most supply houses do that too anyway.

Last summer when I needed to restock my supply of #12 stranded THHN, wire prices had gone way up since the last time I purchased this wire and I was blown away at the prices that all of the supply houses where quoting, which were from $99.00 to $129.00 per 500 FT spool of BK, RD, BL, WH, GRN.
I just happened to be at HD later that week for something else and saw the same brand of stranded #12 THHN for $60.00 per 500 Ft. spool.
Needless to say, at around $40.00 less per spool, I cleaned the shelf off.
I also noticed a significant price difference for 250 FT coils and 1000 FT spools of RX. Not so much for MC cable though.
You do have to be careful when you shop at HD though. Sometimes the quantities are different in the packages or on the spools and can actually cost more per piece or per foot than at the supply house.
Grainger is a great supply company for motors, but their other prices are definitely extremely high. No real discounts on tools either. I used to have to spend at least $5000.00 annually to get their contractor discount. Your also paying for all those pretty red and white boxes when you have items shipped

Posted By: willfescon Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/28/07 07:25 PM
Are contractors just uninformed about these prices? The current prices at lowe's locally here are $39 per 250' roll of 14-2 nm and 59 for a 250' of 12-2 nm. Last week I was quoted $48 and some change for a roll of 14-2 at ces. I laughed and went less than 2 miles to home depot and saved 200 bucks on everything I had to buy. And the good thing about that is, if one store is sold out, I just go to lowes and they usualy match the price and I buy what I am needing.

I'm just frustrated that I was wasting my time with the supply houses, why throw that 15 to 20% difference into the pockets of supply houses which should be catering to contractors instead we can save money by going with big box retail that sells to every other do it yourselfer out there.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/28/07 07:45 PM
The 'supply house' has an advantage to those of us who do comm/ind work. Yes, big box probably will beat $$ for resi mat'l but.....what about what they don't have?

Also, the supply house account is net 30, sign & drive. I guess some of us remain loyal to the supply houses.

As to WWG....when the supply house doesn't have it, or can't get it in a reasonable time...ya pay the price. 24 hr emergency works at WWG, and net 30 accounts also. And as a bonus, parts for a whole lot of things.


Posted By: KJay Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/28/07 09:51 PM
HotLine1,
I thinks it’s good to be loyal, as long as you feel comfortable that you’re not getting beat. However, I always have to keep a close eye the bottom line. Grainger is a good supplier for some commercial/industrial, but I still need to shop around regardless of the type of work. Other suppliers like McMaster-Carr Supply, MSC or Graybar also have 30-day net commercial accounts and their prices for explosion proof fixtures, motor controls, transformers and such are usually less than Grainger. They also usually have better freight rates as well, even when considering that Grainger used to ship free for orders over $900.00.
If you do Telecom then Graybar’s telecom division is the place to shop as they have or can get you anything telecom. Compared to Graybar, Grainger has absolutely nothing for any real telecom work. It looks like Graybar is now carrying some decent fire alarm equipment too. If you need HV utility supplies, also take a look at Graybar and McMaster-Carr. smile
Posted By: leland Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 12:14 AM
GRAINGER: Unless next door and in a pinch.... Pass therm by.
Graybar by far (for this type supplier)is a better bet.


With that said, I do my fare share of HD/Lowes etc shopping.
BUT... When I call my supplier at 10 to twelve on a SAT. or 5 past 5 on a Tuesday, and order.

They will either wate, or place it out behind the shrubs so I can get it!!!! Thats what LOYALTY gets ya. That I wont change.
A little more sometimes, Yes. But SERVICE, and keep my As_ outa the sh-t, YES!

So I lean towards the supplier. Build a relationship (like anyother) and you reap bennefits.

With that you get some cell #s and they may just get you what you need when their closed.

A good tip, and happy customers.
Posted By: sparkyinak Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 12:35 AM
Generally the more you buy on average typically the better pricing you can get with a wholesaler. It costs more per part to fill small orders then it does on large orders. In a sense the big EC's get bulk pricing. It is kind of like the difference in buying TP at Costco vs. the local grocery chain. smile
Posted By: leland Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 12:39 AM
I DON"T do a large volume.
It's the RELATIONSHIP, and the guys at the counter/inside sales.The more you are there, the more you are known,the better the RELATIONSHIP.
I will go to them first. It has paid off more than twice.
Posted By: leland Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 12:47 AM
I used to get better prices than my employer.On everyday small items (of course).
But always watch their numbers.
I remember 1 day at 7:45, I bought old work boxes for $.79,and at 3PM they were $.90. (commision).Different sales dude.
Posted By: sparkyinak Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 12:54 AM
I agree on the face to face. You still can buy in volume even at the counter. What I was talking about is if you buy $5000 in parts annualy, you will pay more per part then someone who buys $50,000 annually. I prefer doing face to face. Unfortunently for me the nearest part counter is 100 miles and several bodies of water apart. Main supplier is in the direction and about 1200 miles. I do not always have the luxury of doing face to face.
Posted By: Obsaleet Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 01:20 AM
I know HD can beat my supplier on wire sometimes but the time I waste in there store is not worth the trouble. The rest of the stuff I get better pricing from my supplier and I know the product is better not "home owner grade". I understand HD will tell there vendors the price they will pay and then the venders try to figure out how to make a buck. Ever notice Leviton devices come in a difrent box at HD. Lowes uses Eagle. Ever try and buy a raised cover for a 4" sq at Lowes? They don't sell them? 2 aisle th big box vs supplier 20,000 sdq ft x 5 diffrent supplies. Sorry I'm loyal to my venders at this point


Ob
Posted By: leland Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 01:36 AM
SparkyinAK, I see your dilema.The point is very valid in volume.

Obsaleet: Your point is well taken.
I think we all know where and how we do better.

Example, I'll buy my wire at the box store (RX), but when it comes to my 6" cans.. I get those from the supply house, much better deal, TRIMS,RI kits and lamps included.
Any extras I bring them back seperate to the box store, for "store credit". OOPS, I gave a trade secret out.
I then apply that to the wire.
Posted By: sparkyinak Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 03:01 AM
Another thing anyone should think about purchasing is warranty matters and your personal liability when it comes to buying from a wholesaler, big box stores, and the local mom and pop hardware store. That little extra you pay can be an economical insurance policy.
Posted By: WESTUPLACE Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/29/07 03:09 PM
Just a note HD Supply is not owned by Home Depot. Although Home Depot started HD Supply they sold it (early this year, I think)Robert
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 12:03 AM
Adding to my previous comments; now that other names are thrown in.....
McMaster Carr.....great catalog, really vast array of stocked items, and as a bonus...order by 11:00AM and have it delivered that same day! And the del. charges are not really $$$. A great source for hardware, tooling and odd ball stuff.

WWG, odd fuses, odd bulbs, tools, motors, relays, etc. Only electrical mat'l in a real pinch.

Cooper Electric Supply, GE Supply(locally gone), Turtle & Hughes, NIB Electric Supply (Independent Store), Powers Electric Supply (Independent Store) Rahway Electric Supply (3 store operation) All area Electrical Supply Houses

Posted By: mahlere Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Adding to my previous comments; now that other names are thrown in.....
McMaster Carr.....great catalog, really vast array of stocked items, and as a bonus...order by 11:00AM and have it delivered that same day! And the del. charges are not really $$$. A great source for hardware, tooling and odd ball stuff.

WWG, odd fuses, odd bulbs, tools, motors, relays, etc. Only electrical mat'l in a real pinch.

Cooper Electric Supply, GE Supply(locally gone), Turtle & Hughes, NIB Electric Supply (Independent Store), Powers Electric Supply (Independent Store) Rahway Electric Supply (3 store operation) All area Electrical Supply Houses



Hotline....Rahway was a 2 store operation (Rahway and Asbury Park) About 12 months ago they were bought by USESI....about 6 months ago, USESI was bought by CED...so, now Rahway is a 500 location company laugh
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 01:58 AM
Wow, I haven't gone to the store to purchase supplies from HD or Lowe's on my commercial accounts in years. I either e-mail, call or fax the order in to them and it's either delivered the next day or we go and pick it up at their contractor's counter. Both accounts are NET30 with flex terms available. I agree that actually going to the stores is a major hassle, hence the reason I use the commercial sales division.

I really don't think that a spool of THHN sold at HD is any different (quality-wise) than one sold at a CED or Rexel branch. All wire has to meet the same manufacturing standards. Residential grade wiring devices? OK, maybe there is a difference in quality but I don't think it's any different from Hubbell's new Home Select product line, all made in China and sold at supply houses. Hold one of their receptacles up next to a Cooper/Eagle 270V receptacle from Lowe's and you won't be able to tell the difference (except the color of the back). You will swear that they were both made in the same factory, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

With traditional supply houses, one thing that a lot of people forget is that they are charging more than big box stores because of the quality of people that they hire. Go to HD seeking advice on a 3-pole, 45 amp bolt-in GE THQB breaker, you will get that famous "deer in the headlights" stare. A subsequent call to the manager will confirm that you aren't going to get any help there.

BUT, I can go to the store in a pinch at 9:40 on a Saturday night, pick up two black 3-way Decora dimmers, an L14-30 Twist-Lock receptacle, a Diet Coke, a pack of shower curtain (rings that my wife asked me to pick up) and a half-sheet of plywood, go through the self-checkout and be on my way. They do offer a certain level of convenience, but that is IF you know exactly what you need.

Go to Rexel or CED looking for that same breaker, they will know exactly what you are seeking. If they don't have it, chances are that they can do a stock transfer from another location by the next day. The counter person will probably also do a search to see if they have another product that's comparable that may help you out.

Go to Grainger's for the same breaker; they will have 50 of them on the shelf, but you will pay twice the price for it. The counter person might not know much about it, but you'll have it in your hands and be out the door in five minutes if you have their catalog's part number.

So, in the end, it's all relative. Like I said in my initial post, I generally buy my basic generic items, like cable and plastic boxes, from HD or Lowe's. They have more purchasing power to keep the prices down on these items. It's not always the cost of the items themselves since that's relatively consistent. It's the level of support and local inventory availability that affects pricing being charged.
Posted By: mahlere Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 02:51 AM
when we used a lot of romex, we'd buy from HD or Lowes...it was worth it...but these days we are 95% MC or EMT...i get better prices at the supply house...and for the odd coil of romex, it's just easier to have it delivered...the $10 savings isn't worth the aggravation of going to the HD or Lowes...
Posted By: leland Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 02:55 AM
---and a half-sheet of plywood, go through the self-checkout and be on my way. ----

SO, your that guy. I always get stuck behind you!!!:)
Posted By: Helectric Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 06:17 AM
Willfescon,

It sounds like you're doing a lot of service work. You may want to try something that I did a few years ago for similar reasons. I wasn't putting together large enough orders to quote them all individually and was buying from whichever supply house I happened to be closest to at the time so wasn't really doing much volume with any single supplier.
I identified my high usage items and their total expected usage over time and asked my suppliers for a fixed per unit and also a quantity (per carton etc.) price quote based on that info. The idea being that they would honor that price for a period of time i.e., three months to a year and in return I would give them something close to the stated volume of business.
I received quotes from three different suppliers for this and one of them actually gave me some pretty decent pricing over what I had been paying over the counter. I did have to watch their invoices though as they would sometimes invoice at a higher than negotiated price. They will tell you how often they will want to re-quote based on their cost change history and will of course exclude things like wire.
This also made estimating jobs a little easier.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/30/07 06:51 AM
Originally Posted by leland
---and a half-sheet of plywood, go through the self-checkout and be on my way. ----

SO, your that guy. I always get stuck behind you!!!:)


So true....I always manage to grab the one item out of 500 on the shelf that doesn't have a bar code label on it. Kind of like the Visa/MasterCard TV commercials! grin
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/31/07 04:36 PM
Mahlere:
I stand corrected re: Rahway...probably hit wrong key...
Haven't shopped there in 4-5 yrs......was a Cooper reg up until I closed shop 5/07

Take care
Posted By: mahlere Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 12/31/07 09:21 PM
hotline...no worries...i'm in the mix everyday and I can't keep up...we rarely use cooper anymore...ever since sonapar took them over, it's been all downhill...
Posted By: PE&Master Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 02/02/08 11:55 PM
When I worked for a Fortune 50 company, Grainger would give us a Large discount. As I recall, around 30 to 40%.
Posted By: Check Pilot Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 02/10/08 06:09 AM

Wifey, the bean counter, does all the running around for the bits and pieces lately. She's got the time to call both the suppliers and the big box guys to find out who has what for our guys on the job. - And more importantly to her - THE PRICE.

I'm lucky to have her because the only salary I have to pay is my own mental well being at the supper table every night while being "briefed" on just EXACTLY what happened during the day. And what we paid for stuff!

Mostly the big box doofusses can get it kind of right for supply of material, but if one of our guys needs a particular part that the big box guys don't normally handle, the poor guy on the electrical supplier desk gets the "action" from a dedicated gopher/bean counter/grunt/ delivery person and better find it - in her words "QUICKLY".

I know most of the rest of you guys don't have a wife that's that supportive (if you are lucky enough to have one like that), but it's saved us all kinds of time over the last few years and our journeyman and apprentice guys are just super happy to see wifey drive up to the site with the material they need within a few minutes of asking for an item they don't have. - (Like that new 200 amp Siemens panel that is replacing an old FP someone bought in the US 50 years ago).

The only thing that gets me PO'd though, is that she usually brings a bunch of coffee and doughnuts for the guys and they all have to sit around and yakk for 20 or 25 minutes about "things" with her about the jobsite while our customer is waiting for us to get their work done.

Bonnie does that every day, even if they don't need parts too.

Works for us, I guess. At least our guys are hanging around.

Overall,I like it because she probably got the best price too. It's likely saved me a few $10G bills over the last couple of years.

A gopher might be in your future? It's well worth it in my opinion.
Posted By: rcksmith127 Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 02/12/08 01:32 AM
Just my two cents... I was always under the impression that copper was a commodity and price was driven by the market? I don't know HD could get a better price then a supply house weather they bought volume or not. I do know that when they sell copper, like gasoline, they are selling for the price it is going to cost to replace the product, not what they had paid for it.
As far as supply houses, I like the convience of faxing orders to them and having 95% accuracy of what I was looking for.
The supply house is also great for 24 hour service. I have had little luck getting help in HD when they are open let alone 2 in the morning and I need something for an emergency.
We do pay a little more at the supply house but I feel that it is justifyable for the service, as mentioned, that they provide.
Thats all

Safety First!
Posted By: Tiger Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 02/12/08 04:41 AM
Discount hardware stores operate with varying profits for different items. The wire and conduit are cheap, but the connectors, boxes and mudrings are more expensive. If you buy everything at a hardware store, or everything at a supplier, the supplier will save you money. I use a supplier that drops my order at my shop. I save an hour every time I use my supplier. The hardware stores carry common items that sell the most, but few of the odd items that we need regularly. If we don't use electrical suppliers they'll go out of business and we'll go out of business with them.

Dave
Posted By: SteveFehr Re: Supply House prices vs Home Depot - 02/12/08 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by rcksmith127
Just my two cents... I was always under the impression that copper was a commodity and price was driven by the market? I don't know HD could get a better price then a supply house weather they bought volume or not.
Sales volume is different for Home Depot and Lowes when compared to a supply house- they may be able to mass negotiate as a corporate giant, but individual stores don't necessarily sell that much. When prices rise and the big box is still cheap, they're quickly bought out. But when the prices drop, the big box often lags behind... until they're left with 250' reels of romex and 2" copper pipes running twice what it's going for at the supply house, and it just sits there for weeks or months until some poor unknowing DIY sap buys it.
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