In central florida. I am trying to get some idea of the going rate, I have heard anything from $5.00 per sq ft to 10% of the overall building cost. I estimated materials to cost me around $4,000. It's a 4 bed, 2200 sq foot house. About 13 recess cans thruout. I bid about 12,000 and was told by the builder the bids he already had were between 6000 and 7500. That sounds way off to me. Do you think the builder is getting legitimate bids in that area, do you think my bids are that far off and that uncompetitive?

I have only got licensed this year, and I have never really dealt with any pricing or cost issues previously in my career while working with others. I've always worked for companies that didn't share cost info or budget info.

I'm trying to learn as I go, run my little operation in my free time while still working full time for another company. Until I can afford to support myself fulltime with leads and service work to pay the bills.

All I can say is that you need to document the heck out of this job - every moment, every little detail. Forget about making money right now .... consider the loss 'tuition'.

You need the data to appreciate exactly what your materials cost, how much time each task takes, and what complications arise. Only then will you have the info you need to accurately guess your costs on future (similar) jobs. Then, you can go about setting your prices.

Although cost per square foot is a good reference, it is not a good ruler for costing out a project. It you are bidding jobs and you do not know what you are doing, you are a gutsier person than I. I strongly recommend that you hit the books on estimating. It is "easy" to do a residential estimate. You take a good takeoff of a project, i.e. recepts, GFCI (both the interior and exterior seperatley), switches, lights, etc. For each of the catagories, you will need a bare cost. You have to break down each catagory to cost them. Wire, device box, staples, faceplate, etc. add up each catagory and mutiply them by you take off quanities, then you have the bare cost of the project. Then you throw on you overhead costs of, tools, office expenses, business licenses, work truck, social security, taxes, bonding, insurance, kickbacks, and the big one profit just to cover the basics. After you get the job and sweated over what you missed on the bid since you were the lowest, you account for every penny you spend. This is typically down by breaking your bid down in several catagories. For example, you could have labor and material costs for project management, underground and exterior work, electrical service, interior rough in, and trim out of devices, and trim out of lights. More catagory reflects a better picture of you project but it can take more time and effort to keep it correct and accurate. This helps you manage your project and a reference to future projects. As you progress, you can add or modify as needed to best suit your needs for accurate and effective esimating. This is why contractors get gray hair and ulcers at an early age.

In the Philadelphia PA area, working for large developers, you are expected to wire the home at cost, and make your profit on the options.
The home you describe would be priced at around $6,000.00, and the recessed at about $65.00 each.
I can't afford to do these.

For small builders, on the home you described, the going rate is probably around $8,000.00-$9,000.00.

But the square foot method is no good for bidding.
It doesn't account for number of bedrooms or bathrooms, family room or not, number of AC systems, gas or electric appliances, etc.


Sparkyinak sums up the unit pricing method nicely.

Wire a home at cost.What the hell. How can you make any money off a $65 charge for an "extra light". Good grief I am so disapointed at the lengths some E.C.s will go to slice the next guys throat. Just to get the work.I don't want to start the on going debate of pricing methods in yet another thread. But I believe you name your price if you don't get it so be it. It's not worth doing it cheaper, to make the G.C. a larger profit.He certainly won't be sending you an envelope with cash if they sell for more than expected. He will however call you again knowing you'll bust hump wiring a house to make the big bucks of an extra few lights not shown on the print.
My point is if you don't get the job for your price its not cause your too high, usually most of the time, the other guy is too low. and usually he's the guy working out of a station wagon, using milk crates as a step ladder, ya get the picture

WireNuts,

I don't know about your region, but residential development work around here is a specialty business unto itself.

Low margin, low quality, high volume, cut-throat indeed.
Take an employee, show him how to wire a home, and in a year or so he underbids his boss and opens up shop. That's why I try to avoid it. Of course, you don't need a license in PA, and most local municipalities only require you to pay a fee to be "licensed".


I'll take industrial and commercial work any time I can get it.

Well then, This is where you ALL Seize the opertunity!
"You want it done, WHEN? You want me to do it NOW? Fine, THIS MUCH!" ( PASS THE WORD TO THE OTHERS!!!) Then do it.
Your in the drivers seat. So long as we can get all those "FLY BY NIGHT" people outa the way. If we can't.. Charge double to clean up the mess.
We hold our own destiny!!!!! If we give it away.. WE starve.
IF as stated, It seams you are in the drivers seat. Get together with the other ECs in your area and buckle down.
Business sucks, But they're still selling cars,ins.houses.tractors ...........

Here Recessed, new work $85- 125/ea- old work $150-180 ea.
Ya can't buy and transport them for $65. Let alone install.

Please don't take anything as a personal "Rip".
Me ,Wirenuts' and others are trying to convey, We must take our industry back. Lets get paid what we are worth.If we all get on the same page, we can all make a good living.
You may loose 1 or 2, but you should not sell out.
This is why I'm a big advocate for licenseing and permiting.
We are Professionals after all.

Michigan is terrible, $2 a sq.ft. and I hear guys doing homes for $1.78. I did the math after the contractor pays him employees he makes about $200 off the house. Rediculas.

Whats licensing and permiting going to do? The inspectors never check for a license.

The rule here is you must have 1 journeyman on site, that journeyman can supervise 2 apprentices. That rule is hardly ever followed and NEVER inforced. We have apprentices running jobs sites all over.

Call the state. Here, Mass. We must provide a current certificate of insurance, with job completion rider on it before a permit is issued along with a license(with picture).The option of the owner to sign a waiver acknowledging you don't have ins. is available.But, would you like to take that chance? Additionaly, you are not releived of accountability, This only informs the owner that you are not insured.

Proud to say, but I must feed my family, and therefore if I see a substantial job (not a light fix change out)in progress, I WILL call to check the permit status.

Too bad, Take food from me and we will butt heads.
I pay good money for my insurance,license and equipment. Steal and you will be prosecuted.

PS: 1 J-lic 1 aprentice/job. Master can have any amount employed,but each job is a 1 to 1. J- man cannot work with j-man unless both employed by the same master.
So self employed J-man can only have 1 apprentice, when they get licensed, fire them get another helper, or your masters.

When I do new work (which is almost never at this point) I make sure every device is light gfci etc. is listed. Any thing above is a charge anything below a credit. Doing things to code is a min. if they don't ask for recessed lights the get none. 1 switched receptacle in bedrooms. And if your to high either keep trying or move on. In my opinion builders are not were its at. They want it now, they want it cheap and they want to take 120+ days to pay for it. Recently in our area some are having a tough time finding electricians, wonder why.

Good luck!

Ob

Electricians as an entire trade should come up with some standard pricing policy. I understand fully the importance of an open market, and commercialism. However the guys who don't understand by doing the "work" cheap. For what ever reason.Maybe after hours moonlighting, maybe a handyman who can wire, plumb, paint and roof etc. I'm not calling for unionizing, but some kind of pricing outline. There is absolutely no reason for any e.c. to do jobs with this margin of profit.(if you can call it that)
I would be 100% behind them making some kind of buisness course required to
open a business.Or even just to do business. Definetely licensing, and insurance should be mandatory state to state.Thats my 2 more cents worth....

=standard pricing policy.=
This must be regional. In no way could it cover national/international lines.
If somthing costs on average $100. We should all charge $100 +-. This crap of 1 charging $100 and the other Charging $10--!?
C'mon!! Someone made and someone just kept busy (thats important too). But I agree If we all charge what it's worth, we'ld all be better off.
We're all in this together. Lets get together.
We will all be better off.
This is why I am a proponent of licensing and insureing.

And for those "side work guys/gals". Charge the going rates.
and get insured, why loose your house etc. for a $200 grab.

to make the uniform priceing that will be kinda tough call to set up like this each corner have slightly diffrence on priceing policy but overall once you get the high side and low side and average it out that you can used for general baseline to use it.

sometime have to use the common sense depending what ya call for it.

Merci, Marc

Good quote here:

the insurance company gave in to my demand "after that agent check with other EC's and they reply the same aswer as i say".

Thank you Marc.
You illustrate the point nicely.

This subject is one of the hardest things a new guy can try to get a handle on. I don't charge by square foot. Tried it - been there - done that. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Square foot pricing is a coin toss. We made profit on about 60% of them and lost money on the other 40% and wound up breaking even over a 2 year period. When my bean counter (wifey) and I looked at residential stuff we decided we would just have to spend the time to do a separate estimate for every job we got(of which there were plenty). The problem is the time it takes. It usually takes a day or so to figure out what the builder wants and then they usually pull out the "extras" that need further work on an estimate.

When we added all the overhead of operating the business we could never come up with an accurate estimate with Square Foot pricing so that's why we now take the time to give a VERY detailed estimate and binding contract for each contract.

As most electricians just want to get in there and get the job done (much like pilots flying aeroplanes) it should be simple. But it isn't.

We bid on jobs on typical 2000 square foot houses that have varied from $6000.00 to $15,000.00 --- it all depends on what the customer/builder wants. There is just no simple formula.