Any tips or suggestions? Im kinda new any input would be GREATLY appreciated

You ever take off any plans before?

ITO

I have a plan here and Im got a count as to outlets 3ws 4 ways and the such Im just stuck on how you formulate a price for these items......

Every piece of material has a labor unit, and a cost of material associated to it.

One outlet-
J-box
Receptacle
Wire nuts
connector
romex

Each item has a value in the form of time of how long you will spend fooling with it get it installed plus a dollar value for the cost of the material.

A short cut is to add all that together and figure an average distance for the romex and then formulated a labor unit and cost per outlet.

Labor units are something you can buy in a book on estimating. DO NOT USE RS Means for estimating the units are way too high, only use RS Means for change orders.

In a nutshell that is how it work, I would love to wax on and on about it but I have babies to put in bed.

I suggest you invest in estimating software and a book on estimating. Mike Holt has books and videos on estimating. Mike Holt's estimating book has some labor units in it you can use until you develop your own. Estimating software will come with labor units set up that you can change to reflect your own labor units.

Here's a link to one.
http://www.turbobid.net/TurboBidHome.html

Here's a couple of others.
http://www.craftsman-book.com/products/info/nee.htm
http://www.visioninfosoft.com/index.php

This is why I follow these forums. The "book learning" would say use Means. The real world, as Ito says, is quite different.

Or have you had to sit down and order the material for a job trying your darnedest not to forget anything but also not buy too much? A wee bit of extra being better than not quite enough? Then take the crew out and install said material in as efficient a manner as possible?

If that was your job for long enough you should know what it takes in both time and material to get each phase of a house wired.

Get pricing, pray it doesn't go up too much next week if you don't have the money or the storage space to buy it all up front, and add it all up.

If you have employees you'll have to figure out what each one REALLY costs you per hour to get your average man/hour rate. If it's just you use your best guess of what your competitions REAL M/H rate is.

Add to the total a small percentage for overhead (unless you have huge overhead for some reason) and a certain percentage for profit (cause that's what the other guys are going to do).

When your done your number should be have you making and not losing money. Better to lose the job that do it for almost free. But you shouldn't be leaving too much on the table every time either and short of CGs or competitors actually telling you where you should be the only way to find out is to lose one now and again.

Comb over every page and every note of the plans. Something missed in the plumbers notes like an instant hot water dispenser will take a circuit for sure.
When the architect draws the condensing unit 10 feet from the panel don't believe it. Include enough wire to hit the farthest corner of the building.
Same with the service. Unless you have it on VERY good authority that it will be where its shown figure your home runs and bonding wire for worst case.

Ask a LOT of questions. Septic pump? Where? Well? Where?
Future pool/outbuilding? Where? Yard lighting, gate power, etc....

Now the tricky part is seeing in 2D that that gluelam is going to add X # of feet to the home runs or even cause you to add a sub to keep length down......or that something is being speced that you've never heard of and no idea how to set up for.


That should get you started and you might even prefer it to software although I'd bet the software would be helpful for areas where your hands on is limited.
I wouldn't try to bid too far out of my direct experience but should I push my envelope a bit I will be trying some software.

A GC that I used to labor for many years ago once said about the subject of bidding "You sit down to the plans and your scared. You try to think but you can't, because your busy. Being scared."

PS
Don't forget the t&m for underground, the riser,the service and ALL of the breakers. I did that on one of my first bids and ate that on 2 copies of that house. Oops.

Vince

Thanks everyone for there advice! Im basically just a one man crew trying to get by with doing it all myself some call me crazy but Im young...Theres alot of good people on these boards and I appreciate all the help i can get!

Awl,

My partner and I are just 5 years into business and estimating is still the trickiest thing for us. It gets easier with experience, like the guys said you will lose a few from time to time, but if you get them all you will know 2 things: you do not have time to do them all and
you are probably working too cheap.

I second Mike Holts book. I got the book and library and I learned lots. I don't have a business so don't listen to me to much I would get a good labor unit book, or estimating software. From past experience the supply house will honor a quote up to 30 days, have your Contractor quotes to expire in 30 days (I am assuming you are doing small projects).

write a business plan. You don't don't go on vacation with out a plan so why would you invest thousands of dollars and hours and not have a plan.

Negotiating/sales is the trickiest part.

AWL send me an email I might be able to help you out, or make things worse

AWL,

I've been a one-man shop for 23 years and have had to survive on my estimating skills. If you're after new construction, I can't help you, but wish you luck...there's little loyalty and low-bid wins. If you're after remodeling work email me and I'll answer whatever questions you have.

Dave
dave@tigerelectrical.com

Hi Dave I shot you an email thanks for your offer of help its greatly appreciated

Adam

National Electrical Estimating, both book, and CD should put you on track, for residential estimating.

I'm in your shoes. Bidding basic residential is VERY hard for me also. So far I only dare to go T&M and risk losing the work. The work that I do get should give me insight to estimate future jobs better.

Remodel and service is harder to estimate than new construction, especially if they don't want to open up the walls and tear down the ceiling for you.
Sometimes people will be receptive to T&M and sometimes not.
Sometimes T&M will have you working for much less than anyone else in town would have even opened the plans for.
What I sometimes propose is that I will give an estimate and then do the job T&M. I now make sure that my estimate is what I would do the job for win or lose. I recently got lazy and casually gave a verbal number off the top of my head that ended up being a couple of hundred too low and was asked "what caused it to go so so high?" I hate that and won't ever let it happen again.
I will estimate on the high side of realistic as I prefer to present an invoice that is lower than expected. Or not take the job. When I say realistic I mean realistic. What's the costliest thing you could possibly encounter in trying to get wire from here to there? Don't forget how all those pesky little parts add up.
Depending on the size and scope of the job, I will sometimes ask to take a look at the attic, basement, service, and sometimes run a rod up the wall at a switch box (to check for blocks, pipes, headers, anything...) before giving a number.
However,when all goes well this seems to make everyone happy even if it doesn't put me in that 5000 sq ft home that I really need.
Just keep good records of what you actually did and how much it cost you to do it for future reference.
And it should go without saying to learn from each and every surprise you encounter.
Vince

I made the same mistake a few days ago [first and LAST time] I ended up making no money on the job, only walking away with 1200' of #8 THHN [worth over $600] and knowing the fact that the customer has much more work for me in the near future. I ate it this time... From now on: written quotes only.

~Matt

In an estimating and bidding course I took many years ago it was stated that if you get 20% of the jobs you bid on you're doing ok. I've been doing T&M work on new homes for a few years, but I do give them a "ballpark" price first. Sometimes the ballpark price scares them away, sometimes not. You win some, you lose some. Many customers just worry about price and nothing else. As soon as they start talking about taking out their own permit and hiring a moonlighter to do the work, there's no point in even bothering to bid. A legit electrical contractor cannot compete with that. I have a letter I issue with my estimates stating that price is only a small portion of what should be considered when awarding a bid. Warranty, quality of work, how long the contractor has been in business, reputation, licensing, insurance, worker's compensation, etc should also play a part in selecting a contractor. A lot depends on the economy of your area, how much construction is going on and how many contractors are available to do the work.