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Posted By: neutron Residential Pricing - 08/05/06 02:35 PM
Just getting started with my own business and need some help with pricing new residential work on Long Island, NY. A builder gave me a price list to fill out and give back, but I am having trouble giving him accurate pricing-don't want to overcharge, but I also don't want to undercharge. Anyone out there willing to help me? Thanks for your help!
Posted By: Tiger Re: Residential Pricing - 08/05/06 04:37 PM
When builders ask me for pricing, I ask them to send a blueprint for me to bid on. Most of them don't respond. I suspect they're looking to save money to increase their profits.

My installations typically go well beyond code-minimum, so I don't do business with builders looking to increase their profits at my expense.

Dave
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Residential Pricing - 08/05/06 04:58 PM
To get a per opening price you need to do this:

Start simple with a receptacle amount by figuring:

How much material to instal and go to the next one (box, mud ring, device, fittings, straps, nails, wire nuts, trim, & wire)? Figure some loss and waist 5-10% (end of roll wire, pipe scrap, lost, damaged, stolen).

Mark up your material for profit and warenty.

How long will it take to rough? If you only figure the nail up time you migh be low. More accurate is how many can be done in a day including set up, break, layout, clean up, etc. You can loose 1 hour in that. 1 hour in 8 is 12.5%.

Drive time and material pick up may be a factor.

Now figure your wire pulling and trim out time. Don't forget the quality control time.

Multiply the device labor time by your new construction labor rate (do the math on this & if you need help figuring this post another thread).

Now you got your base rough opening price.
For most other otems just add to that price.
A GFI costs XX more than a rec so just XX more (and something for the company) to your price.
A vanity light will take you X longer to install so add that amount of time times your new construction labor rate and bang thats your price.
Figure a cieling fan needs a box thats costs XX more than a standard box, may need anouter switch leg, and on average it takes x more time then a rec at your rate to install it.

A switch can take a bit more labor and materials then a rec.

A smoke detector costs XX more then a rec, and has longer runs between openings.

You should charge for circuits and or home runs.

Dedicated circuits need to be more money.

Ark fault breakers cost XX more, may require there own nut, and may take a hair more time.

Two story openings can take a lot more time as well as crawel space work so those are extras.

Cutting into cabnets takes time and is risky so I add for each of those.

Chandeliers on average take XX longer then a keyless to install, may need to be centered perfect, and should have a heavier box so I add those amounts to the base price.

You also may need to figure in other job costs with village fees, bonds, etc.

Anyway that will get you started in figuring you opening prices. When you finish a job you should go back and look at you pricuing and if you won or lost adding up T&M with a proffit. Then ajust your numbers.

Several time a unknown GC might ask a opening price on a rec or can. The funny thing is those may be a small part of the job price. There a so many other items like built in ovens, A/C units, furnaces, spa tubs, etc. An opening price might be $5 or more lower but it can mode up on other items.

Another issue is should you give the GC your price sheet? I would rather give a price sheet then do a blueprint. Both may be a waist of time but the price sheet you can use.

If you do give the GC pricing I would include items or at least have a disclaimer on charges he might have missed like circuit costs, dedicated circuits, 2 story, etc.




[This message has been edited by Active 1 (edited 08-05-2006).]
Posted By: mahlere Re: Residential Pricing - 08/05/06 05:08 PM
short answer or long answer?
Posted By: LK Re: Residential Pricing - 08/05/06 06:37 PM
"A builder gave me a price list to fill out and give back,"

There is no simple answer, just read some of the information Active 1 posted, you will have a lot of work to do, before you fill out anything.
Posted By: PE&Master Re: Residential Pricing - 08/09/06 12:45 AM
How about a per sq foot price?

So much for basic, code requirement minimum wiring, then adders past that point for things like CAT5, dual coaxes, etc.

I've seen $4/sq.ft used before wire prices skyrocketed.
Posted By: LK Re: Residential Pricing - 08/09/06 02:34 AM
PE.

Square foot is ok if he is a roofer, or doing sq foot tasks, can you buy a square ft of cable, or install a square of cable?, he has to get a unit price first then he can convert it to a square foot price if desired.

GC's deal in square feet, with most of their building tasks, so EC's will unit price it, then convert it to sq ft.
Posted By: LearJet9 Re: Residential Pricing - 08/11/06 11:11 AM
When we were doing residential work we tried the sq ft pricing. It 'never' worked out for us. Who knows, maybe we were just calculating incorrectly. We abandoned that fairly quickly.
Posted By: neutron Re: Residential Pricing - 08/12/06 06:27 PM
active 1
your info is a great start for me I have alot of work to do and i'm sure that there will be alot of trial and error until i work out all the kinks. Thank tou to all
Posted By: Tom H Re: Residential Pricing - 08/12/06 09:44 PM
I always do takeoffs weather a print is available or not. I look at what is required per opening, ie home run length, breaker brand and type, box to box length, boxes, outlets, switches etc. I also figure any ceiling opening not in a basement, attic or crawl as a ceiling fan. I spec basic recess and provide cut sheets for those recess with the proposal package.

I NEVER include dimmers unless they are spec'd in plans as they can range in price from 10 to 280 a device.

Ok not always but especially for new contractors.
Posted By: Celtic Re: Residential Pricing - 08/13/06 01:06 AM
I'll bite:
Mahlere - give us the long version...
Posted By: ExpressQuote Re: Residential Pricing - 08/13/06 03:28 AM
Guys,

If you are having a little trouble figuring out what items you should work out pricing for...

Check out this link to NEBS forms.
http://www.nebs.com/nebsEcat/produc...ORM&key2=LOB+FORM&key3=PLUMBHEAT

Then enlarge the electrical form.

This is the form that I used as the guideline for my first version of my own flat rate pricing. It gave me a place to start and covers most everything for residential work.

It is designed as a workorder or invoice, but works well for doing an on-site manual estimate as well.

Just thought the info might help.



[This message has been edited by ExpressQuote (edited 08-12-2006).]
Posted By: mahlere Re: Residential Pricing - 08/14/06 07:52 PM
Actually active 1 did. we posted at around the same time, i hadn't seen his yet.

you want the short version? call the other contractors in your phone book, ask their price, then cut it by a few dollars. You'll be raking in the money in no time [Linked Image]
Posted By: ExpressQuote Re: Residential Pricing - 08/15/06 01:13 AM
Price is perception.

If anyone hasn't seen this article from EC&M: http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_serves_right/index.html

Just thought it was topical.
Posted By: ShockMe77 Re: Residential Pricing - 10/05/06 02:30 AM
^^

That was an outstanding article. I particuliarly liked this part:

Quote
The share-and-share-alike concept advocated by Nexstar and ESI will no doubt seem counter-intuitive to the contractor who wants to always stay one step ahead of his competition. When Raspino joined Nexstar, he was leery of giving potential competitors a look into the inner workings of his business, but then he saw how a group of 12 members in the Philadelphia area — some of who were direct competitors — would get together for dinner once a month to discuss their businesses and compare growth strategies. Seeing how they benefitted from that practice was enough to ease his mind. “When I started out, I didn't want to let anyone get that close because I thought they could take some of our ideas and become stronger competitors,” he says. “But look at those companies in Philadelphia. Even though they're networking with potential competitors, they seem to do really well.”

I am totally down with that. The industry as a whole needs to stop undercutting one another. I see it happen every day and if we dont stop it we'll all be making $8 dollars before too long.

(I did not mean to offend anyone who happens to make $8 per hour)
Posted By: electrictim510 Re: Residential Pricing - 10/24/06 02:41 AM
This is not advice ...sorry. This is the reason why I stick to service, though I thank the guys who do rough-ins I prefer not to. There is just not enough money in it and you have to bust your balls to make money unless you slave drive a crew. Sorry for changing the subject.
Posted By: rws Re: Residential Pricing - 12/06/06 10:14 PM
In the early to mid-90's, a company I worked for would square foot a house. When that guy started his business, most houses only had a plug per room and a light.

These days, I don't think you can square foot, unless you go high. I think you have to line item the labor and take-off the devices, as well as knowing who's buying appliances.

Wire seems to fluctuate with the price of fuel.

Labor unit on conduit is 3.25 per hundred feet, generally, and it might be the same or a little less, even though you are drilling studs and pulling NMC.

And I would separate the estimate into undergrounds, rough-in, and trim.

And, as a wise man said, when you write your contract, get half of your money up front. You've got people to pay, even if it's only yourself.

I think others are right. Someone wants a square foot estimate just in the hopes of getting a low bidder.
Posted By: ITO Re: Residential Pricing - 12/07/06 01:36 PM
Quote
A builder gave me a price list to fill out and give back, but I am having trouble giving him accurate pricing-don't want to overcharge, but I also don't want to undercharge.

Run away its a trap.

Be very very careful giving unit prices, they will hold you to them and use them to beat you up.
Posted By: ITO Re: Residential Pricing - 12/08/06 05:46 AM
Another thought on this…

Sometimes I am forced by spec to give unit pricing.

There is a price for carrying an item, one for adding and item, and there is another price for deducting and item and they are not the same.

Adding a receptacle might run about $150 for this particular job, while the credit back for deducting it might run $95, and at the same time I might be carrying it for $125

GCs understand this and do it themselves.


[This message has been edited by ITO (edited 12-08-2006).]
Posted By: PE&Master Re: Residential Pricing - 01/14/07 02:25 AM
How come the article in ECM shows a guy next to a commerical panel when the aritcle is about resi service work? (note the fire alarm pull station)
Regardless of the picture, it's a good article. It's all based on flat rate pricing.
Posted By: GA76JW Re: Residential Pricing - 01/14/07 10:33 PM
Quote
How come the article in ECM shows a guy next to a commerical panel when the aritcle is about resi service work?


This is why I love this site. I completely overlooked that picture when I was readig the article. It was very informative, but this is an even better question.

It amazes me what some of you guys pick up just by looking at a picture. I guess it's true, a picture is worth a 1000 words.
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