Recently, we have been asked to bid on replacing Federal Pacific Electric “Stab-Lock” panels. In the course of the preparing the bid, the homeowners have asked for our opinion as to the degree of danger presented by FPE panels. I know that these panels are a hazard and we strongly recommend replacing them. Does anyone have any source data say from UL that we could provide homeowners so they have accurate up to date information so they can make an informed decision re replacement?

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!

Here is what has become the standard link regarding FPE breakers.
Note the link to the CPSC study on them.


FPE panels

Google FPE and you will get tons of stuff.
pay note the ones that say, even using replacement breakers does not help.

I'm getting a little weary of the anti-FPE hysteria.

The study so freely circulated on the internet was NOT supported by further CPSC studies. There was never a recall, and they never lost their UL listing.
All breakers submitted to UL have to pass the same exact tests. Some may be eaasier to use, or be of better design- but they pass the same standard tests as regard "safety."

Replacement breakers are another issue. "Unique Breakkers," sold in the US, are not UL listed, and it's anyone's guess as to the meaning of the "ETL" tag on them. The ones manufactureed by Schneider for the Canadian market are, in fact, listed by UL-Canada.

For an opposing point of view regarding FPE, I suggest a search of back issues of "IAEI News." IAEI is the electrical inspectors' association- and they are no where near as concerned as some other groups.

FPE panels may not be my favcorite, but their presence is no reason to panic.

renosteinke. When I was a new helper I watched as a journeyman held a hot to ground from an FPE panel without the breaker tripping. I personally have turned them on and heard them humm and not trip till I was compelled by fear to turn the breaker off. Reciently a co-worker of my had a relay blow apart because of a short in the circuit when the FPE breaker did not clear the fault. I have held an amprobe on a circuit drawing 23 amps all day long, and the breaker never got hot enough to trip. (that one I might give you)

It is not just from reading stuff on the internet that I conclude that FPE breakers are a hazzard. It is also from experience.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpe.html

I think that FPE breakers manufactured in the U.S for U.S installations are different internally ... I have NEVER heard of an FPE breaker not tripping here in Canada.. I will be the first to admit they are SLOW to trip but they do trip and no damage results... I have heard the same story from a neighbour and electrician regarding other manufacturers whereby they have had dead shorts and the breaker did no more than hum!
" Fires caused because the breaker didnt trip"??? Maybe there was not enough current to actually trip the breaker?? Maybe there was arcing ( hence the manufacture and use of arc fault breakers!)...

I have seen piles of these breakers installed and I have seen them trip when required under short circuits or overloads ( at least they do here in Canada!)
A.D

ETL is a competitor of UL, that does the same type of testing that UL does. They are not as well known or accepted, especially by AHJ's

I live in canada and once cut a 15a cct bx cable oops wrecked my pliers fpe black skinny stablok brkr did not trip even after i shorted it to ground a 2nd time.

"I personally have turned them on and heard them humm and not trip till I was compelled by fear to turn the breaker off."
[Quote]jwwhite


Siemens (ITE) and GE will do the same things when old! Have not experienced it personnaly with SquareD, but it wouldnt surprise me.

Having been an apprentice in the trade when these were being installed, I can recall the electricians complaining to the contractor about how junky they were. They proliferated due to low cost - and are no longer used for a reason. Hard to be a Sq D QO that has been around at least since the 70's.
We continually get reports from home buyers that home inspectors have written reports stating the they are not safe. In all honesty, I have blown apart some nice Kliens without the breakers tripping and have seen them burned up in panels.
As far as replacing them, I tell customer that they were never the best quality panels and I'd recommend replacing it if they're concerned, but it's not required.
As far as them not tripping in Canada...

FPE stab-lok is everywhere here in BC. 40yo homes right up to current - some of which I installed on spec'ed jobs within the past few years.

I don't *like* them, but that is my opinion. I think the stabs have poor pressure and contact area with the bus bars. However, it is by far the most common breaker/panel I deal with so its no surprise its the brand I run into with the most problems.

Why there is a witch-hunt for FPE south of the border, and virtually no cause for alarm (except for opinionated sparkies ) up here doesn't make sense. Insurance companies are busy condemning K&T and/or fuse boxes instead.

BTW: I install Square-D QO whenever possible.

The Canadian Federal Pioneer is a different breaker internally than the US Federal Pacific. I would be wary of the older Federal Pacific breakers that made it into Canada however.