When you first started your business, did you already have customers that you had established a relationship with at your previous job? Did/Do you get your new work by "cold calling" local GC's, realtors, or property management companies? Did you go to work sites like strip malls and the like with vacant lease spaces and post your business card? What did you do to get your business up and running and how do you find work in the slow periods when your regular customers don't have anything in the works? Without spending a fortune on yellow page advertising, how do you promote your business to the public? Do you use flyers or small ads in local papers?
What do you do for help when you find bigger jobs that might last for a short while...do you use a labor service? Do you want to remain a one man shop? If so why? Are you building a business or are you just self-employed? As a one man shop, did you set your business up as a sole proprietor or an LLC?? Do you work from your home or do you rent or own a "office/shop"?? What do you do for medical insurance? Do you use an accountant/tax person? Do you have an attorney you use for business purposes?

Just wondering!!!

The first thing I did was to Advertise in the Yellow Pages

A friend of mine asked me about yellow page advertising the other day. He was looking at spending 10K, for a quarter page add.

I told him, my experience in that form of advertising was dismal at best. At first, I pounded the pavement, then advertised in the yellow pages. I got more customers pounding the pavement, then in the books.

But to keep it fair, my customer base doesn't look in yellow pages for electricians.

My lesson learned...

Once you have name recognition, you can trim back avertising costs substantally.

Home or rent space? Both....
I never stop working on something..

Building a business or self employed?
Building, looking to merge with others.....

Accountant=yes, I need one
Attorney=no


Dnk...

"When you first started your business, did you already have customers that you had established a relationship with at your previous job?"

I had one job left to do for my former boss, that I knew he needed me for. I told him he could pay me hourly at the same rate , but he ended up making me bid on the job. Other than that I had nothing solid lined up.

"Did/Do you get your new work by "cold calling" local GC's, realtors, or property management companies? Did you go to work sites like strip malls and the like with vacant lease spaces and post your business card?"

All I did was run index card size ads in 3 town newspapers. There are 2 saying that will bring in tons of work: "No Job Too Small" and "We Return All Phone Calls"

"What did you do to get your business up and running and how do you find work in the slow periods when your regular customers don't have anything in the works?"

There are always customers that have aditional work that they say can be done any time. I ask them if I can save it for slower winter months and that's usually acceptable. I keep a list going .

"Without spending a fortune on yellow page advertising, how do you promote your business to the public? Do you use flyers or small ads in local papers?"

Yellow pages are a joke! My biggest mistake yet. Stick with local papers.


"What do you do for help when you find bigger jobs that might last for a short while...do you use a labor service? Do you want to remain a one man shop? If so why?"

I had friends that I would hire for a day or 2. Now I have a full time (almost) employee. He's ok with having a day off now and then.

"Are you building a business or are you just self-employed? As a one man shop, did you set your business up as a sole proprietor or an LLC?? Do you work from your home or do you rent or own a "office/shop"??"

Self employed sole-proprieter working out of an office in my home (great deduction!)

"What do you do for medical insurance?"

My wife carries the insurance

"Do you use an accountant/tax person? Do you have an attorney you use for business purposes?"

I have an accountant but saw no need for a attorney yet. The accountant does my employee's payroll for $10/pay period which is every 2 weeks

LK,
It must be the same the world over.
In my old EC's contract, it had a clause called "Restraint of Trade".
For a period of 2 years you were not allowed to work within 10km (7miles) of thier business premises, if you would be working in direct competition with your former employer.

Other side of the coin, there was a well publiicised case over here, about 2 years back, of an Industrial Electrician that negotiated a few deals with the companies customers for himself, while working for his Boss and then abruptly left.
When the Boss found out what had happened, the electrician was hauled before the courts and was in the end fined NZ$40,000.

I must say I agree with you though Les, if you have to use underhand methods like that to win jobs, what's the point of being in the trade at all?.

LK...wasn't suggesting "stealing" anyone's work from your employer. Obviously there are companies out there that specialize in say remodel only, residential only, commercial only or industrial only. It would seem to me that you can make "contacts" with people as you go that may want you to do the type of work that your employer does not do. I have never had to sign anything that says I can't do work for someone after I leave that employer. I know that those agreements like the non-compete ones are out there...I just never had to sign one. I was approached by a company that we were doing work for and asked to come and do some more work for them on the side and I refused it because I knew it wasn't right...I even went to my (at that time) employer and told them of the work that customer needed.

You know some bigger companies do not want to mess with smaller jobs too. There are a variety of reason you could have built up a customer base. For example, lets say you did a job for a customer when you were working for your previous employer, they liked your work and found out that you were opening your own business. They have a friend that needs some work done so they tell them to call you. I see no problem with that. Or you may have worked with another trade on a job, say an HVAC company. One of the guys you worked with (past job) recommends you to one of his customers. See what I mean? Or would these be stealing to you?

Anyway...thanks for the responses I have gotten so far. I have heard good and bad about the yellow pages, and I sure don't have that kind of money to spend on one form of advertising. If you can spend that kind of money for one ad in the yellow pages as a one man shop...great, you are really doing well. I would worry that if I got a really good response (enough to pay for those big ads, that as a one man shop I would have to turn a lot of work away which in turn wouldn't give me such a good name regardless of the quality of my work. Personally, I depend a lot on word of mouth to get my customers, but was thinking of possibly trying to expand a bit.

Honest to God truth, I was sitting in the bar where my girlfriend of that time was a waitress until she got off work. I overheard a guy talking to some other guy's about how he was having trouble getting his electrical contractor to get to his jobs. I slid my card over, and next thing I know he is asking me to bid on a townhouse project. 21 years ago, and I am still going strong. I am a one man show now, but wasn't always.

LK, Pa is a right to work state.

Employement agreements that limits ones ability to work in their field, are not enforceable in PA.

I went through one.......


Stealing business is another thing...


Dnk.....

MacMikeman...Where did you go to high school? I went to Radford. I sure do miss body surfing over there...Sandy Beach was awesome. I also liked scuba diving there.
Off topic, but thought I would ask.

Dnk,

It's a non compete clause, nothing to do with right to work.

quote"MacMikeman...Where did you go to high school? I went to Radford. I sure do miss body surfing over there...Sandy Beach was awesome. I also liked scuba diving there.
Off topic, but thought I would ask."

Thanks for asking. I went to High School at Cypress Lake High School in Fort Myers about 200 years ago. I live less than a quarter mile from Sandy Beach. Loving life. God Bless

"The contractor i worked for has a clause in the employment contract, that for one year after leaving his employment i could not work within 25 miles from his location, also in my opinion stealing previous employers work is on the shady side of doing business.'

First, I would NEVER sign a paper like that. If a potential employer asked me to sign I'd tell him to go suck lemons!!


I am/was in a strange situation. I am a one man shop (plus helper). I have had several customers of a former employer contact me to do work. I initially said NO directly to them, saying they were customers of Mr. Former.
They proceed to tell me how very upset they are with said previous employer and how they would not hire him again anyway, regardless if I were the one to do their work. They sought me out since they knew me and my work, and trust I would do the right thing by them.
I very thankfully accept their proposal to do their work.
Bear in mind, I solicited NO ONE. Not even pushing business cards (I do have them of course). I do NOT even have a yellow pages ad. These folks either called my home knowing my last name or asked around to find out my number.

I have a totally clear conscience as I did nothing but answer my phone.

LK, you bring up a good point...for so many shady activities, it is necessary for more than one of the participants to be crooked.

As you also suggested, not every boss, or every customer, is an angel.

I am half of a two-man company. One of the reason this has worked out is because the two of us communicate to an extraordinary degree. We find it almost amusing when a customer calls one of us, then the other...in an attempt to play one against the other. Almost as funny is when we are asked to do "side jobs."

Such folks do not fit our definition of "good customers," and are 'rewarded' with higher prices and a lower scheduling priority.

Thing is I wasn't surprised at all about getting "tracked down" by these customers as I knew how the former employer was. I heard it all the time when I worked for him. All were taken aback when I initially told them no when they asked for a card.
Also, I knew them before they called me. The ones I did not care for didn't get a call back, or were told I wasn't interested.
One I told flat out, "I will not work for you!"

After 18 years I know am relatively new to self-employment compared to many folks. But I am NOT naive.

[This message has been edited by Speedy Petey (edited 12-15-2005).]

The way I look at it, a customer has a right to hire whomever they want. I wouldn't directly solicit the business of a former employer, but I wouldn't turn down their business if they called me.

In regard to yellow page ads, I think the answer depends entirely on your market area. There is only one directory service in my area and most people consult the yellow pages if they don't personally know an electrician. In the small town where my parents live, most of the contractors do not advertise at all. It makes it extremely difficult to find somebody to do your work when you don't know who to call.

In regards to business organizations, I would highly recommend consulting an accountant (and possibly an attorney) before making that decision. The account can advise you as to the tax liabilities (don't forget state and local taxes!!!), and the attorney can advise you as to legal liability and legal requirements.

Finally, I'm an electrician who also happens to be a commercial property manager. It never hurts to drop your card off at the property manager's office, but remember that most tenants are responsible for their own internal wiring - so don't forget them.

Sure, many businesses are slow paying, but others pay well. You'll just have to do your homework by checking references. Many contractors are major rip-off artists as well. It took me several years as a property manager to locate an HVAC company that wouldn't cheat us at every turn. So, most property managers are just as leary of contractors as contractors are of property managers!

And as far as estimates go, that's just part of doing business. Many times property managers need to know what it will cost to build out a space to tenant's specs in order to calculate a rent rate, only to have the deal fall apart at a later time. I generally tell my contractors how likely I think it is that the deal will go through so that they don't waste too much time on it. Often, I just need a verbal ball-park price for my calculations. The main thing is to try and work with the property manager to establish a mutually beneficial relationship. (Granted, this isn't always possible.)

I am doing all of my work word of mouth right now,and getting all the work I can stand to do,I know in the future I will have to advertise, are you guys getting the dollar value from your yellow pages ads? I work up here in Minnesota (but I can spell and I know all my colors)Happy Holidays and a profitable New Year.

"are you guys getting the dollar value from your yellow pages ads? "

We would not be renewing the ad's if they din't pay.

In the non-=compete clause, Why did one employer write 7 miles and another 25 miles? What is the proper distance? Why not write 50 miles? Or 60 miles? One hour travel time?

In the non-=compete clause, Why did one employer write 7 miles and another 25 miles? What is the proper distance? Why not write 50 miles? Or 60 miles? One hour travel time? Is there a legtal limit? Or just reasonable distance?

Non-compete agreements can contain virtually any terms, but may not be enforceable in a court of law if they are overly restrictive. The reason for this is that the courts have tried to strike a balance between the need to protect a business from "customer stealing," and the need to protect the livelihood of an employee. Consequently, the common law in most states requires non-compete agreements to contain specifics concerning the type of work restricted, a limited distance from the employer's operations, and/or a fixed period of time. The idea is only to protect the employer's trade area for a limited amount of time. Too long of a restricted time period or too broad of a distance (as determined by the employer's trade area) will result in the agreement being unenforceable in court. So, if an employer generally only works within 25 miles of his base, then he would only be hurting himself by setting the radius restriction to a higher limit.

I can understand a non-compete clause for existing customers of a former employer who are not looking to go elsewhere with their business. But to say someone cannot work right in their home town, after working for someone else, who also happen to be local, is nuts. IMO it's discrimination!

75 miles??? Do people actually sign these things?
What is the incentive to go out on your own if by law you have to work 25, 50 or 75 miles away? In those cases that makes it prohibitive to even work on your own. Consider today's fuel prices. You are automatically as a huge disadvantage having some much more overhead. Isn't it hard enough to embark into self-employment???

Why not just prosecute or discipline those who DO actually "steal" customers?

Speedy,

"Do people actually sign these things?"

Yes every day, when they sign a service order or installation contract, there is a non-compete clause, when the customer signs they accept the terms.

You said you would never sign that, if you work for some companies, they have the non-compete clause in their service and installation contracts, same dog different trick.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 12-22-2005).]

Yes, I have.

For the company they got the peace of mind I could not go to work for their direct competition.

For me I received a guarantee of my full weeks pay if they had work for me or not.

At this point it has expired but I would most likely do it again if asked.

Sorry if I sound confusing. I am talking about employment contracts, not work or service contracts.

A clause in a service contract I know protects a company from having it's clients steal it's workers away for less money. Those I understand.

Maybe not being in the big city is the reason I see employment clauses as rediculous.

It is funny to me how this thread went off on to sign or not to sign a non-compete clause and "stealing" other peoples work...and here I thought that I was the only one who could not keep focused...lol

Going back to starting the business, I had printed off some 1/2 sheet ads which I hoofed around town and distributed to about 500 homes. It got me a bit of work and from there it was word-of-mouth that got me more work. As time went I took a cheap small word ad in the local newspaper on Fridays, which got me even more work.

[This message has been edited by Sixer (edited 03-11-2007).]