I started a small ad this year after not advertising for 7 years. I never really noticed it before, but there seems to be a trend in the local books. ECs are running full-page ads for one year, then not renewing them the following year.

I was quoted over $18,000 for a full-page ad.

Apparently after tracking the ad for a year they decided it wasn't worth renewing the expense.

Dave

We've been running a full size yellow page ad for several years with the cost being around $16000 per year. We track every call and the big ad has generated 10 times it's cost. We also do radio and tv ads.
If they don't know who you are, how are they going to call you?
Believe me word of mouth is great but if you want to make serious money you must advertise.
Look at Pepsi, Coke, DHL they didn't get there by word of mouth only.
Now I'm not saying this will work for everyone. You must have financial backing(our advertising budget runs $65000 to $75000 per year) and a keen busisness sence to go along with it.
You have to know what your customers want and how you can quickly to get it to them.

Well around here the perception with most consumers is the larger the ad the more unscrupulous the company. (Don't take this personally guys!)

Companies with big ads hope that it will provide the numbers of customers necessary to keep their volume business going. Volume doesn't necessarily equate with quality, fair prices or ethical business practices.

So, basically what it boils down to is people think that if you were any good you wouldn't need that huge ad screaming at them. I know when I look in the Yellow Pages I tend to look past the larger ads for the smaller ones from local companies.

Indeed, most of the more sucessful companies around here only have a listing.

-Hal

I have the largest ads possible in all the directories where we operate.

That, in no way, has anything to do with the quality of work we provide.

Yes, I go to work everyday to make money.

Yes, I use advertising to promote and grow our business.

I will be renewing them. Our YP budget alone is over 65k per year. Wonder why I would pay so much?

I don't think large advertising speaks any ill of a company. I think it's prudent though to stay within a reasonable percentage of your budget when advertising. I suspect that the contractors who aren't renewing these ads went over a prudent percentage. Maybe a case of doing too much too soon.

Dave

Advertising is a big step. As with any trade, advertising has its' prooven methods, as well as its' failures.
How big an ad? What sort of type? Pictures? Art? These are basic questions- and, believe it or not, there are answers! Answers supported by decades of tracking expereince.

Just don't count on the sales rep for guidance. While they may know all the rate schedules and promotions, as well as be able to fill your ear with tales of how so-and-so does it "this" way...well, in my experienct these folks are there simply to get the sale, and have NO actual training in, or experience with, advertising.
Indeed, many are the tales of dollars spent- without result. Or, even, bad advice that actually reduced sales.

I reccomend that anyone wishing to advertise get the little book -almost a pamphlet- "My Life in Advertising / Scientific Advertising" by Claude Hopkins. This book is one of those rare things that holds true even decades after it was first printed. Better yet, it's available for about $10, from any book source.

Adds are needed, no doubt about it.
big add-big companyS some people like it, some look for smaller adds- in believe there are smaller companys with better prices.
The placement is so important and i know people placing full pages with unsatisfactiory responses.The prices are the same no matter if you are in the first of the header or the 15 th. A joke.

Large Ads will NOT, I repeat will NOT, get you immediate results. It takes the yellow pages book a minimum of 6 months to travel your area and another 6 months for people to start using it.
So you must be able to sustain your initial investment and renew the following year and let your investment start working for you.
With the right wording and quality service your prospects will take off. Tell the people what they want to hear and then deliver it.
I live in the great state of Mass. As other contractors are laying off I am hiring at a dizzing pace.
Five years ago I didn't think this was possible but with financal planning and a good busisness background it has, with so few pitfalls that they need not be mentioned.
Like it was said in this post earlier I wouldn't be spending this kind of money on advertising if it wasn't working.

it sure keeps the phone ringing...

I'll bet it does and that's good if you only want to do a lot of "hit and run" jobs and give estimates to tire kickers.

Anybody looking to have a large project done isn't necessarily going to be looking in the Yellow Pages.

-Hal

So sayeth the flock!

LK,
It looks like you and I are on the same page and it's a very good page to be on.

Hal,
Every EC has thier own ideas of what is good for themselves. I have been where you are now and feared every day that the GC I was working for was going to hold back payment for some reason as they work off of your money or just go belly up.
Now I don't wait for my money, it comes in every day seven days a week from those hit and run residental and commerical customers.

In my area, you have to have a "double truck" (2 page ad) to be near the front. We have 1 that costs us $42,000 per year and we are the 4th position in the book. In the same book we have a 1/4 page near the back. The people who call the small ad are looking for a deal, the ones that call the big ad just want the job done, today if posible, at whatever the going rate is, just do it.

My exerience has been that all yellow pages are not created equal. Some work, some don't. If you notice a lot of ads don't renew, don't buy in that book. But if you notice the biggest 3 or 4 ads are the same company every year, that's the book to put your money in and buy a bigger ad than them if you can.

Another HUGE tip: Don't let the directory company design your ad. They suck at it. Have your ad created by a marketing company that only designs ads, they know what works. Just Google "yellow page ad design". It will cost $1000-$2500, but compare that to spending $20K+++ for an ad that doesn't work. I noticed a significant pick up in call volume after I had my ad redesigned.


[This message has been edited by Electric Eagle (edited 11-13-2005).]

"Another HUGE tip: Don't let the directory company design your ad."

Good tip, good advice, will lead you to good investments.

You have to go big. Little adds won't work. And today you will need more than 1 page, as the trend is 2-3 pages minumum.
That is a huge expensive considering some guys are in multiple books.

Rsidential service better be your niche. As stated above, some customers do not look in the phone books for electricians. These you have to get by word of mouth most of the time. Or someone has to know someone.

On a prior discussion we had on this board, the importance of reading and understanding the contract you sign, was emphasized.

Hbiss, I'm in the same boat as you, I think. My base doesn't look in phone books. I'm thinking about direct marketting. Any tips??

Dnk.....

All – great discussion! I fully understand that folks need to know you are out there before they can dial. While we are small, we are approaching the size where a mid to large yellow page add will be needed to generate the next leg of our growth strategy. My question is what TYPE of business does a yellow page add generate. AND what type of capabilities do you need to have when the phone starts ringing. We only have one good estimator, I would imagine we would need to develop a second estimator…what else?

VinceR

Instead of hiring an estimator, you could teach you service guys to estimate and do the work....


Dnk...

All of our techs have the knowledge to price jobs.
We also have a project manager to oversee the daily workings of all jobs.We have an office manager to make sure all checks and paperwork and permits are filed and completed in a timely manner.
We have 4 office staff who answer phones. All calls are answered by the third ring. Jobs are scheduled before they hang up and emergencys are handled within 1 1/2 hours.
My job is to make sure everything runs in a smooth and orderly manner and to put out any fires that may arise.
We also have in house book keeping and pay roll.
We have once a week training meetings with all employees.
#1 take care of your customers and they will take care of you.

As a small contractor I really appreciate the input of those with larger shops...and larger advertising budgets. Thanks for your help on this one. I know what to save my money for now.

Dave

Before I was able to go large in the YP, I competed with a half page ad, that placed me back a few pages, in fifth place. As we were gearing up for the big leap the following year, I used radio to compliment our YP ad. It's quite costly, but it served us well. Once you have your budget and timelines figured out, you may want to give radio a try.

hey wilkie,

do they really have radio in SC? I thought they still used the 2 cans and string for the phone ;-)

i was wondering what happened to y'all.

how are things going for you? get out of the truck 100% yet?

good luck
erik

I am running with the same add as last years. I am on the second page of book with a 1/3 page Ad. My Cost runs about 325.00 per month

Yes, we do have radio. How else could we continue to get the word out about northern aggression?

Still in the truck. Business is good. Send me an email some time.

For those shops spending several thousand a year on advertising, how many employees do you have ?

And what are the annual sales ?

Hal


Don't take this the wrong way but I doubt highly you represent the average yellow page user.

You are a man that has very strong unchangeable opinions. You are not IMO the 'average' ECN poster or likely to be the 'average' business owner.

When I needed a plumber I looked in the yellow pages starting with the big adds first. They generally provide the most information about the companies.

If that info is all accurate is always a question.

IMO advertising is a in itself a competition and you don;t win that race with a little boring ad.

JMO and keep in mind I have never owned a company.

Bob

Oh by the way, when I call and do not get a human I hang up and move on to the next ad, so take that for what it is worth if you have a machine answer your phone.

It's not the size of the ad thats important. It's what you say in the ad. Having a larger ad gives you more space to explain to people why they should choose your company instead of the another one. Most people looking in the yellow pages have already made a decision to purchase something and are now looking for someone to purchase it from. The better you can explain the benifits they will receive by choosing your company the more likely they will call. Larger ads give you the space to do this. I was talking with a friend of mine about this and he said when he uses the yellow pages he will call the smaller ads because he figures their prices will be lower because they're not spending alot of money on advertising. He's more interested in getting a low price.
I believe people calling the smaller ads are more concerned about a low price and people calling the larger ads are more concerned about quality service and getting the job done quickly. Price is less of a concern.
I believe the larger ads will get you more customers where price is secondary to customer service and the smaller ads will get you more customers where getting the lowest price is their main objective.
I would rather have customers that are more concerned about quality service than low price.
Here's a link to some good information on yellow page advertising. http://www.ypcommando.com/

Sparky134,
Each truck should generate a min.of $320,000 per year with one licensed tech in each truck.This is strickly doing residental service work.
We currently have 11 employees and 5 trucks.

Thats great but what about the smaller guy.....Is a smaller ad in the yellow pages better than none. The most common books here in texas is swbell and verizon. Right now I am advertising the local public freebies...(Greensheet) distribution 550,000 every week. but at some time....Ill have to make that jump. Any advice from the ad vets here.

I was just looking back at our advertising for this year. Totals are not in yet. I'm guesing total cost of $8K. The invoices totals for new customers from advertising is not too much more then the cost of advertising. Subtract material and labor and it was a money looser for us. That does not account for the tire kicker calls.

I also noticed that customers from advertising did not generate too much for repeat bisiness. I like to think we do our best to make the customer happy. We do have other many refurals and repeat business. It just seemed like the customers that called us used us then forgot us. Maybe next time they needed someone they just started over in the phone book.

I would agree that it takes a while before some people change to a new book.

It also seems like the more you your in the phone book the more sales calls you get. I think some places call everyone in each book. If your in a few books it seems like they call you several times.

One year I tracked an ad with a different number. For maybe $180 a month I would get 10 calls. I would guess most of those were sales calls because most were not more then 1 minuite on the phone bill.

Depending on what directory, area and which year we had 1/2, 1/3 page, bisiness card size, bold lettering, other sections.

What our problems are:
1. There are at least 3 publishers and some publishers have 6 or more different books in just 1 county. So 1 ad in all the books in 1 county can ad up fast.

2. Lots of big competition with companies 50 or more years old. They are well known and have deep pockets.

3. There are 100's of EC listed in the books here. Although many don't have an ad.

4. We don't have a person in the office answering the phone. Many times a call is forwarded to my cell phone. I noticed the forwarding can take longer then 30 seconds before the customer hears a ring. Some may just give up. Other times my phone does not ring and goes to voice mail. But the worst is when I answer and the phne signal cuts out. On a job site it can be very hard to talk on a phone well. I also find when I sitting down at a desk I can talk to the customer much better. We can hear each other, I can write things down, I have a calender and appointment book in front of me. I am more relaxed and can think betterin the office on the phone.

5. Our ads may need to be done by some sort of ad designer.

6. We don't allways have the time or people to take on jobs right away.

To sove these problems:
I could hire an office person or electrician an I sit in the office.

Shell out the big money for 1 page ads.

Pay to have the ads designed.

That could ad up to to a lot - 100K?.

It is just dificult to comit big cash when your not making big money now.

I guess what I'm saying is the ad is just 1/2 of it. A company that invests so much in advertising should also invest in the right people to answer the phone in the office.

I would think your rates should go up to cover the ads & personal so you can make back the hundreds a day your OH went up. Or you would operate at a loss and hope the increased calls will even things out.

Just my opinion. But you might want to listen to the ones that are doing better.

Tom

All, our approach is a bit different than any mentioned above so I invite comments… Since we are a smaller company, we use yellow pages (both print and on-line) and our web page to primarily to give potential customers a chance to validate that we are a legit company that does good work AFTER some one has referred us. We have only have a smaller ad in the most widely used phone book in our target area. We use on line directories because they are cheap and we can put in lots of customer comments. This lets a prospective customer how has heard of us verify that we are a "real company that has been around for a while, does good work etc.