ECN Forum

Company names

Posted By: dride2324

Company names - 02/11/05 01:38 AM

I need clarification on this matter. Can a journeyman start a business using his name followed by electric,? and have only one employee. ex. Bill Clinton Electric. And then register with the town hall as a DBA,for a business license. And use that name on all his business forms?
Posted By: Speedy Petey

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 02:09 AM

That is exactly what I did.
I have no employees but I can.

I would check you local offices.
NYS has several web sites related to small business. One of them lets you search business names; corp, LLC, DBA. If the name you want is on the list pick a new one.

[This message has been edited by Speedy Petey (edited 02-10-2005).]
Posted By: dride2324

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 02:23 AM

I was told by a inspector that I needed a master's license to call my business a "electric" company and I don't think that's correct??????
Posted By: buck

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 06:33 AM

You need an administrators license, or someone who will park their administrators license on you business. (At least in Washington)
Posted By: Electricmanscott

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 12:35 PM

Only Massachusetts rules apply here. As a journeyman you can have a business with yourself and one apprentice. Thats it. Business name must be "Joe Schmoe electrician" or "licensed electrician". You can not be "Electric" or "Electrical contrcator". You are supposed to register with your city or town regardless of the name of your business and you truck must also be lettered accordingly. All of your advertisements must also have your license # displayed.
Posted By: Active 1

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 02:36 PM

In Illinois you would file a doing business as (DBA) form with the local county. An example would be Joe Smo DBA Joe Smo Electric. At least if it is a propritorship or partnership. It's just gives you the right to call your business what ever.

Forms of corporation are filed with the Secritary of state.

If you called your co your own name Joe Smo I don't think you would have to file anything here. You would not have much saying you are a registered business. When you put the Electric on the end here then I believe it would change requirements.

Odds may be against it but you should take the time to make sure there are no other Joe Smo Electric's in your state or near you. Just a search with my last name + Electric had a number of company web sites. I know in my state there is a big GC company with my last name + builders. You might want to search all the related fields for your last name used. You don't want to look like your the same company as maybe one with a bad reputation.

Tom

Tom

[This message has been edited by Active 1 (edited 02-11-2005).]
Posted By: hbiss

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 03:03 PM

Business name must be "Joe Schmoe electrician" or "licensed electrician".

Only problem I have seen with this is that any checks received as payment must be deposited into your business account, not cashed. This creates a record of payments that can be used to determine income.

The temptation is very great for "Joe Schmoe" to cash a check made out to him rather than deposit it. Of course the income then usually goes unreported. With any other D/B/A company name the bank would not let you cash it.

I have known guys who purposely used their own name as their business name just so they could cheat on taxes.

Matter of fact I know one guy who only has one checking account for both business and personal.

-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 02-11-2005).]
Posted By: Electricmanscott

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 05:39 PM

Quote
The temptation is very great for "Joe Schmoe" to cash a check made out to him rather than deposit it. Of course the income then usually goes unreported. With any other D/B/A company name the bank would not let you cash it.

This is true but has nothig to do with how your business us named. Even if you are "Joe Schmoe Electric" you can still have checks written out to "Joe Schmoe" and cash them. This is not a licensing issue it an ethics, integrity, and legal issue.
No offense to "Joe Schmoe" intended. [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 02-11-2005).]
Posted By: Electricmanscott

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 05:41 PM

Quote
Only problem I have seen with this is that any checks received as payment must be deposited into your business account, not cashed. This creates a record of payments that can be used to determine income.
Parhaps I should know this but where would I find this requirement.
Posted By: Dnkldorf

Re: Company names - 02/11/05 09:37 PM

As this was explained to me from my accountant:

Under the provision of "S Corporation" blanket of protection.

You must treat your business as a business and keep it seperate from your personal matters. The Govermnent provides protection of personal assests under the "S Corporation" designation.
However, If you do not abide by these requirements and keep the business seperate from your personal assests and do not have documentation to back up all transactions, the protection provided to you under the "S Corp" umbrella could be restricted.


In a nutshell, if you are Joe Blow Electric, and you cash the business checks and do not report them, You are not treating the business as a business. If something happens and you get sued, the attorneys can possibly go after your personal assests. If you treat your business as a business, within it's provisions, the "S Corp" umbrella protects your personal assests.


Hope this makes sense......


Dnk.........
Posted By: DougW

Re: Company names - 02/12/05 06:46 AM

The term you're looking for (if the owner is the only worker) is Proprietor and sole employee.
Posted By: Speedy Petey

Re: Company names - 02/12/05 01:23 PM

I myself have business checking & savings accounts as well as the same in personal.
I use the business accounts for business and the same for personal.
I am a DBA but I want to keep everything as separate as possible.
I CAN cash checks made out to my business if I want (and I have), but I like to deposit it into my business account for clerical reasons. I enter the check number from the customer in my software, this way I can refrence the payment with facts.
Posted By: Speedy Petey

Re: Company names - 02/12/05 01:27 PM

Also, after reading this (and other) threads I realize there are VERY different requirements from state to state.

Before this I had never heard of an "administrators license".
In fact at my County building IIRC they didn't even ask for a copy of my license. The state doesn't care. The inspector does when I file an ap in an area requiring a license. This is an issue with me. Any Schmoe can call himself Schmoe Electric in NY, regardless of experience. Just don't work in a "license required" area.
Posted By: dride2324

Re: Company names - 02/12/05 08:05 PM

Electricmanscott ANSWERED THE QUESTION RIGHT FOR ME (ONLY IN TAXACHUSETTS)ARE THE RULES STEUP TO HURT THE AVERAGE WORKER.
Posted By: e57

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 02:48 AM

dride2324,
Not only in MA, it seems to be universal, the rules of the game may differ. Everyone must pay or play in some way.
Posted By: hbiss

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 04:51 AM

Parhaps I should know this but where would I find this requirement.

It may vary by state but I doubt it. If you operate under the name of "Acme Electric" checks made out to Acme or Acme Electric must be deposited in an Acme Electric company account, they cannot be cashed. Reason you can't cash them is that your name isn't Acme. You must have an account set up under the name of Acme Electric into which you deposit the checks. Your bank will want a certified copy of your business certificate, incorporation papers or whatever your state issues when you set up the account. You can of course withdraw the money after the check clears. It doesn't matter whether Acme Electric is a corp or sole proprietor. This comes from my bank and I have caught flack from them when I accidentally grab a wrong deposit form and try to deposit a customer check into a personal account.

Now, say your name is Joe Schmoe and operate under your own name. You present a bank with a check made out to Joe Schmoe from a customer. As long as you are Joe Schmoe they will cash it. You don't even have to have a bank account assuming your bank will cash checks without one.

As to the legalities, the IRS requires you to keep accurate business records. The lack of bank statements or the commingling of monies will not bode well for you.

Remember also that all banks are required to report all transactions of $10,000 or more to the feds. If you cash that amount or deposit it into a personal account the feds may want to talk to you especially if you do it more than once.

-Hal
Posted By: Electricmanscott

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 01:15 PM

Hal I know all that and none of it answers my question regarding this statement.
Quote
any checks received as payment must be deposited into your business account, not cashed. This creates a record of payments that can be used to determine income.
Where is the law that says I MUST deposit any check received into a business account?
Posted By: detubbs

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 03:28 PM

don't know where it's at but the way i understand it, the only check you have to deposit is the one with your EXACT busniess name Ex.

D.E. Tubbs Electrical Contracting (depositable)
Tubbs Electric (NON)
Tubbs Electrical Contracting (NON)

this is jsut what people tell me though
Posted By: Dave55

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 04:46 PM

My business is a corporation...the bank wouldn't cash a business check for me if I wanted them to. However, as a sole propriotor I wouldn't think the bank would have a problem cashing it as long as it's properly endorsed.

Dave
Posted By: Electric Eagle

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 05:14 PM

My bank will allow me to deposit a check written to any company even remotely close to my company name into the company account. But I can't put a company check in my personal account.
Posted By: Active 1

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 05:20 PM

How about calling it "Moe-Rons Electric"?
Posted By: hbiss

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 07:55 PM

Where is the law that says I MUST deposit any check received into a business account?

I don't know if it a law as such or more a requirement. I'm sure if you comb through the IRS documents relating to business operation and required record keeping you will find something.

However, as a sole propriotor I wouldn't think the bank would have a problem cashing it as long as it's properly endorsed.

Nothing to do with being a sole proprietor, it depends entirely on what name you have on the account. You could be Joe Schmoe Electric Inc and if you had a check made out to Joe Schmoe they would cash it as long as you were Joe Schmoe. If it were made out to Joe Schmoe Electric they would not cash it, you would have to deposit into the Joe Schmoe Electric Inc account. The bank doesn't care where the check came from only that it is made out to the person who is cashing it or sometimes that it is endorsed by that person. On the other hand anybody can deposit money into an account but checks must be made out to the name on the account.

These are bank rules and sometimes tellers don't always pay attention and things will slip by or they will bend the rules. That doesn't mean that that's the way they are supposed to operate.

-Hal
Posted By: Active 1

Re: Company names - 02/13/05 10:49 PM

Deposit requirements would be based on what type of business (sole, part, corp, etc.).

Sole propriotor no one cares as long as the taxes are done what you do with your deposits.

If your talking a corp then it would be a state/SEC violation to deposit corp income into your personal account. That's called skiming. Taking money this way would be defroding shareholders.

Here is a current list with the SEC. You will find some of these companies fall into this catigory. http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce/claims.htm

If your stock is only owned by you then no one would care and the accountant probibly could make adjustments calling it a deposit then a draw.

If it was a partnership I would be P.O. and talking to an attorny if I found my partner was depositing business income into his personal account.
Posted By: andyp95

Re: Company names - 02/15/05 01:54 AM

Hopefully a journeyman in your state can pull a permit,or else business will be very limited.In my state and the one east of me where I also do work,a master's license is required for getting a permit when the project requires one.Also in my state my particular insurance carrier will not insure a contractor who does not have a master's license.Of course I know that these things vary from state to state. Best of luck to you.
Posted By: rogersan

Re: Company names - 03/24/05 08:16 PM

Not to get into a discussion about corporations and "piercing the corporate veil" here is my 2 cents on names. I think that you have the inherent right to use your own name as a business ie Joe Schmoe is not a dba since it is Joe now if Allan Shapiro is trying to be Joe Schmoe that is a dba. You can't be stopped by a name already in use if it is yours since that is you too. Maybe in the same county this is possible but if you are a Miller or some common name like that I think you can be yourself in business etc. Joe Miller Electrical etc.
Posted By: rogersan

Re: Company names - 03/24/05 08:23 PM

Here is another thing to think of with regards to business entities...Sole Proprietor has unlimited liability for anything the business does this means that any judgement cannot be discharged in bankruptcy and you are personally responsible for that obligation...trust me that really sucks, corporate entities...take your pick are set up in a way that you are only responsible for what you have into the business provided you keep all the filings, books and legal documents in order...in other words you have a separate account and you keep all transactions of the business in there...the benefits of doing this far outweigh any gains you could get from skimming. If you are audited the IRS cannot look at your personal income tax return side by side with the corporation it is like having a shield around you...this is very handy and the added bonus is that corps are a lot less likely to be audited then a sole prop.
Posted By: hbiss

Re: Company names - 03/25/05 01:41 AM

this means that any judgement cannot be discharged in bankruptcy

Thats true for taxes owed but other debts such as from suppliers, credit cards and other business expenses can be discharged.

Oops, never mind, doesn't matter now, Bush just made all of that illegal!

-Hal
© 2020 ECN Electrical Forums