I saw a hydro massage bathtub on a rough inspection the other day. The motor was all plastic, no metal on it, even the mounting plate was plastic and it had a 3 prong plug. There was no place for a bonding wire, but it didn't say double insulated. Does this need to be bonded? I told the GC that for the final inspection, I want the EC to be there and with the book to check the Manufactures requirements.
Manufacturer's instructions? It does sound like a double insulated pump but I really like to see that written somewhere.
Sounds like a double insulated motor with a means to ground nonaccessible internal non-current-carrying metal parts.
Bonding with #8 would not be required.
shortcircuit
Greg,
Yeah it sure sounds like and looks like a double insulated motor. However I will want to see the instructions on the final inspection to be sure.
I just put one in last week. There was a lug on the motor but other than that it was all plastic and self contained; however, a hydromassage tub differs from a self contained hot tub/spa in that the water fill is from a spigot and faucet set not from within the fiberglass tub itself. My local AHJ wanted a bond to the metal parts of the spigot/faucet set. I'm not sure I agree with him technically, but his theory (NEC required or not) was sound so I didn't argue ... besides the #8 solid cost me a whole $3.54 (including tax and the clamp) and took 15 min to install.
Harold:
I had the same item today on a rough. There is NO lug on the motor assembly. The HO had the mfg paperwork (three languages), and I looked thru it briefly; NO mention of bonding at all.
This is a "HO" job; no EC, a brave guy doing a big add-a-level & addition. He was/is going to call the mfg help line to get some info on the motor assembly and supply me a copy. Told him the metal piping required bonding, and to call me when he has the info.
All-in-all, for a DIY HO job, it wasn't bad. Guy wired outlets/lights in 12 ga; 10 ga to the jacuzzi....8 to the hvac.
I'll let you know when he gets me the info.
John
even thru i did install few new spa tubs which it have double insluated motor[s] but have to bonded any metal enclosure including the heater i ran plenty #8 wire there and leave extra near the motor in case it have to be replaced in future which it will happend anyway
Merci, Marc
John,
Have you come across the houses with the plastic water pipes yet?The Hot is red and the cold is blue colored PVC pipe. Then what do you have to bond to for a hydro tub? LOL
There is no such thing as metal pipe in Florida it seems. Bonding is moot if the tub plastic and the motor is double insulated.
Harold:
Yes, had the red & blue, the HT was NOT double insulated, so the motor lug went to the H&C 'tails' going to the faucet assembly, it is metalic piping. I thought about the "4 sq inch or larger", but no one presented any arguments.
If it ain't there, ya can't bond it. right??
John
You only have to bond if using copper piping. Why would you energize a motor by bonding it (taking it back to the sevice) if using plastic piping? This is the position our state has taken after I asked M. Holte for clarification at one of his 2005 classes.
Greg,
You guys in Fla. don't even have basements! LOL You just have to worry about keeping your roof on incase you get those pesky hurricanes. Lets hope for a quiter season this year.
Caper
Harold,
I just had an inspector ask to meet at the site, he wanted to see the manufactures sticker for max load, well there is no sticker on the tub, and we attached all the manufacture info with the permit application,
so now we have to send a man, to open up the tub, only to see there is no sticker, Spa manufactures, should be required to have load information on every spa.
LK,
I agree that the manufactures should be responible enough to put stickers on all of their equipment. I use to fight with EC's about the AL lug on pool heaters. They always said that is was UL approved from the factory. I called Haywood here in NJ who manufactures pool heaters and I asked them why there is an AL lug on the pool. The pool rep told me that it was tested and UL approved. I asked him where it said it the NEC that AL was acceptable for pool bonding. After a pause on the phone, he said that he would have to call me back. It has been 5 years now and he still hasn't called. however I am now seeing pool heaters with CU bonding lugs.
A three prong cord cap and the unit is "double insulated"?
I thought that all double insulated utilization equipment had two prong cord caps.
I am interested to see the results of this.
PC -
regarding 3-prong caps on DI spa units....I had a discussion about 680.74 with UL not too long ago and UL mentioned that some manufacturers are still putting the 3-prong plug on DI units...the grounding prong is not connected to anything however and thus does not create a problem with the DI properties.