ECN Forum
Posted By: safetygem Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/15/05 09:17 PM
I've got a question for everyone that does electrical work or inspections in commercial automotive repair garages.

Here is the NEC reference I am concerned about applying (bold added):
Quote
511.4 Wiring and Equipment in Class I Locations.
(2) Portable Lighting Equipment. Portable lighting equipment shall be equipped with handle, lampholder, hook, and substantial guard attached to the lampholder or handle. All exterior surfaces that might come in contact with battery terminals, wiring terminals, or other objects shall be of nonconducting material or shall be effectively protected with insulation. Lampholders shall be of an unswitched type and shall not provide means for plug-in of attachment plugs. The outer shell shall be of molded composition or other suitable material. Unless the lamp and its cord are supported or arranged in such a manner that they cannot be used in the locations classified in 511.3, they shall be of a type identified for Class I, Division 1 locations.

The 2002 Handbook goes on to say:
Quote
The Class I, Division 2 location above grade within a commercial garage extends 18 in. above floor level, unless the authority having jurisdiction determines otherwise because mechanical ventilation provides at least four air changes per hour.
The Class I, Division 1 location below grade extends from the floor of the pit or depression to floor level, unless the authority having jurisdiction permits the pit or depression to be classified as Class I, Division 2 because ventilation providing at least six air changes per hour exhausts air at the floor level of the pit or depression. Areas suitably cut off and areas adjacent to unclassified, ventilated garages are not classified as hazardous.

OK. Now for the question. Have any of you actually installed (or in the case of inspection) required the installation of this equipment?

It has been my experience that rarely do garages have the required air changes, especially in the cold weather climate of Ohio, where the ventilation is turned off in the winter to conserve heat.

Everytime I bring up this requirement... no one has ever heard about it, even though it has been in the NEC for several years. This includes the people selling the handlamps, who only seem to carry or push equipment that is not in compliance. Does anyone know of a compliant handlamp that is not over $400?

Comments, concerns, suggestions.

Glenn

Edited to add bold to NEC reference.

[This message has been edited by safetygem (edited 02-15-2005).]
Posted By: iwire Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/15/05 09:38 PM
Glenn I don't often say something like this but in my opinion this is a ridiculous requirement.

Force the use of a Class I, Division 1 portable lamp in the same area that they grind, cut with torches and arc weld?

Please explain the logic, I know you do not write the code but don't you find this extreme?

Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-15-2005).]
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 02:46 AM
I agree with I-wire. The code here is worded as an engineer (who thinks he's also a lawyer) would write it...trying to legislate "best" rather than "minimum."
I believe that Oliver Wendell Holmes was the US Supreme Court justice who observed "the law is an ass." With all of the other hand-lamp problems (electrocutions, fires, etc), I doubt that you're ever going to see $400 lamps used.

It should also be pointed out that the Class 1 area is only close to the floor...since the introduction of hydraulic lifts, it's been quite a while since I've seen a mechanic use a floor creeper. I don't expect that the lamps enter the "classified" area very often.
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 05:32 AM
This is something that I wondered about for a bit. For a auto shop what class the location would fall into. I never seen anything special used as far as lighing fixtures, outlets, switches, etc. I don't know if I seen a shop yet with a GFI.

The drop lights are pluged in after the fact. I don't think the electricin has much say after he leaves.

The A-bulb is slowly being replaced by the mini florescent which is safer. The A-bulb drop light gets hot with a 75 or 100 w bulb. you get your arms in a tight space with the light and it a matter of time before you burn your self. It will burn the carpet and some plastics.

You never want one of those a-bulb lamps around when working with fuel. I remember once changing a fuel filter but needed to see better. Kept the light hooked on the frame far away. Fuel started running down the frame twords the light. Went to grab it but it fell next to the catch pan. Some gas drip on it and it was all over in a few seconds.

I don't know the flash pionts but I would guess the bulb does not get hot enough to ignight a vapor. I believe cold fuel or solvent hitting a hot bulb could cause the glass to break and start a fire.

Drop lights do end up on the floor all the time. They fall, used as extension cords, or just not put away.

I seen lots of small car and shop fires but I can only think of the one time it was caused by a drop light.

Tom
Posted By: rbalex Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 05:37 AM
I don’t get to come to this site too often, but I still learn a bit every time I do. This time I’d like to share.

First let me say I agree with the general assessment; however, unless there is substantive change in the definitions of classified locations, this won’t change.

There are several problems; the most serious is that where locations are classified they are usually over-classified and then everyone spends a lot time and effort trying to avoid actually complying with the classification. Classifying them correctly in the first place would be a good start. Often folks just scratch their heads and muddle through.

There is an additional problem with installations covered by Articles 511 through 516. These Articles are generally compelled to coordinate with other Standards that don’t report to the NFPA through the NEC TCC. The folks that define the Classification limits for those Standards are following their interpretation of Section 500. 5 and they tend to be overly conservative – “just to be safe.” (This is why areas get over-classified in the first place.)

The problem with the 500.5 classification definitions is that they are actually based on “possibility” rather than “probability.” However, if they were based on “probability” they would usually take far more time to analyze and be much more difficult to enforce.

For example:

500.5 (B)

(1) A Class I, Division 1 location is a location

(1) In which ignitible concentrations of flammable gases or vapors can [not do] exist under normal operating conditions, or


(2) A Class I, Division 2 location is a location

(1) In which volatile flammable liquids or flammable gases are handled, processed, or used, but in which the liquids, vapors, or gases will normally be confined within closed containers or closed systems from which they can [not will] escape only in case of accidental rupture or breakdown of such containers or systems or in case of abnormal operation of equipment


A problem with both definitions is that “normal” is not defined as it applies to classified locations.

The original IEC Definitions for Zones are:
Zone 0 is: An area in which an explosive gas atmosphere is present continuously or for long periods.
Zone 1 is: An area in which an explosive atmosphere is likely to occur in normal operation.
Zone 2 is: An area in which an explosive atmosphere is not likely to occur in normal operation and, if it does occur, is likely to do so only infrequently and will exist for a short period only.

These definitions are all “probability” defined. While it isn’t specifically required it is common practice for many to use a logarithmic scale: 1000hr/yr+ is Zone 0, 100hr/yr+ is Zone 1 and 10hr/yr+ is Zone 2.

IEC also defines “normal” as: “The situation when the equipment is operating within its design parameters.”
These are like FPNs:

1. Minor releases of flammable material may be part of normal operation. For example, releases from seals which rely on wetting by the fluid which is being pumped are considered to be minor releases.
2. Failures (such as the breakdown of pump seals, flanges gaskets or spillages caused by accidents) which involve urgent repair or shut-down are not considered to be part of normal operation.

Art 505 Definitions “force-fit” the IEC definitions into the “more familiar” NEC format.

Section 500.8(A)(5) says: “Unless otherwise specified, normal operating conditions for motors shall be assumed to be rated full-load steady condition.”

In other words, starting a motor in a Classified location isn’t “normal” per the NEC.

Another difference is that IEC uses area classification to determine other than electrical installations. NFPA 497 reserves it for electrical installations only.

There are several other differences, which is why 505 still needs a “PE” to apply it.

This was all to say that unless there is some serious redefinitions and coordination there will always be what appear to be oddball situations.


[This message has been edited by rbalex (edited 02-16-2005).]

[This message has been edited by rbalex (edited 02-16-2005).]
Posted By: George Little Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 12:53 PM
All I can say is, I had a very good friend that suffered burns over about 30% of his body becasuse of an A lamp and an extension cord type hand held light. The bulb broke and ignited the gasoline on the floor. He lost the car and the garage. This was a residential setting and a homeowner garage so we don't often have any control over what happens in this setting. The hazzard does exist and the code is minimum. If the electrician needs to pay several hundreds or possible thousands of dollars to buy tools to work in his trade, so should any other trade buy the proper tools for his/her trade. I'm kinda glad my dentist don't skimp on tools [Linked Image]
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 05:23 PM
Iam sorry about your friend but the hazard was the gasoline on the floor, not the lamp. Anything could have started that fire.
Posted By: tdhorne Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 09:04 PM
gfretwell Member posted 02-16-2005 12:23 PM
Quote
I am sorry about your friend but the hazard was the gasoline on the floor, not the lamp. Anything could have started that fire.
Greg
You are right of coarse but the principles of fire protection and burn injury prevention are that you can mitigate the fuel, the ignition source, or devise a reliable means to keep them separated. In an auto repair shop it is not logical to act on the idea that all fuel spills can be prevented. Since it is impractical to mitigate the fuel source and the mechanics must have light to work that leaves the ignition source as the only point were mitigation will be effective.

The code forbids the use of exposed incendive lighting in the area were gasoline vapors are likely to be. I've been in Fire and Rescue for over thirty years now and I have seen a few ignition sources that I never would have thought of as likely. In San Francisco, one foggy still night, a car with a damaged gas tank caused enough vapor to accumulate at the bottom of the hill it was sitting on to support the propogation of a back flash that ignited the leaking fuel at the car. The best guess as to the ignition source was the gas light eight feet above ground but four feet below the leaking car vertically.

Gasoline is some weird stuff. In still air it's vapors flow like water and will accumulate in any low spot to form a flammable fuel air mixture. The best answer is probably the use of non incendive rather than explosion proof lights. I do realize that the present code does not recognize that approach.
--
Tom H


[This message has been edited by tdhorne (edited 02-16-2005).]
Posted By: iwire Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 10:10 PM
Tom

Mechanics weld cut and grind in this same area you want to use an Class 1 Div 1 lamp.

It makes no sense.

In area like this it is the fuel that should be controlled.

Bob
Posted By: George Little Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/16/05 10:51 PM
I wonder what the insurance report would say ?? "Owner failed to control gasoline spillage in a Class I Div 1 location when the mechanic was using an A lamp hand held light or grinding"?? Owner was at fault.
Posted By: rbalex Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 02:26 AM
George,

That could indeed be what the insurance report said. I honestly don’t want to minimize what happened to your friend though, especially since I don’t know the details.

From NFPA 497:

Quote
1-1.4 This recommended practice does not apply to situations that may involve catastrophic failure of or catastrophic discharge from process vessels, pipelines, tanks, or systems.

3-1.2 Division 2 Classified Areas. The criterion for a Division 2 area is whether the area is likely to have ignitable mixtures present only under abnormal conditions. The term “abnormal” is used here in a limited sense and does not include a major catastrophe.

In the cases cited so far the ignitible material has actually been the result of a “catastrophic” failure rather than an “abnormal” condition. An “Abnormal” condition generally comes from simple wear and tear. “Catastrophic” failure is a result of accidental damage, an inherent dormant mechanical equipment material flaw (rupture) or misoperation, human or mechanical.

Under standard 497 analysis techniques, a garage floor would not be a classified location unless gasoline was spilled so routinely that the EPA would cite the installation as an air pollution source.
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 02:42 AM
I did not say I want to see class 1 Dev 1 lamps in auto shops. I'm just saying a-bulb drop lights have there problems. I have and use both florescent and a-bulb type. Just as a tec should when and where to to have flames, sparks, and smokes they need to be carefull when using a a-lamp.

Controling a spill sounds like a conterdiction of terms. Like controling a fall. Fuel pressure can be in the 45 PSI range with the car off. Cracking open any line squerts fuel every where.

Tom
Posted By: safetygem Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 03:44 AM
Seems like I've stirred up quite a hornets nest with this one. [Linked Image]

rbalex... welcome to ECN. Thanks for the posts.

I followed the logic of your first post about the appropriateness of the classification logic. However, your second post where you referenced NFPA 497 throws me off. I don't see the applicability of this NFPA standard to this location. 497 can only be applied to Chemical Processing facilities, it has nothing to do with automotive repair garages. It is always important to use the appropriate document for classification. The NEC as we all know does not classify locations, and in this circumstance the appropriate documents for classification are NFPA 30 and 30A. Both of these documents are the source of this NEC reference. There is no way to use 497 to classify the garage floor. [Linked Image]

Active1, I have the same concerns as you about this equipment... I don't think you need to back down from saying that a handlamp approved for an "ordinary" location may present a hazard. That squirting/leaking of fuel is actually a very common occurence. Also, while some handlamps are "plugged in" after the electrician leaves... other times I have seen this equipment speced with a new garage. Right along with the air hoses and everything else hanging down from the ceiling. The most common way to buy the approved devices is actually without a cord, so, (in therory at least) a "qualified" person should be installing the equipment.

"Reno"... I agree and disagree with your points. It is unlikely that someone will pay the big bucks for this equipment. That's what concerns me, I don't see a reason that there can't be a reasonably priced alternative. I just can't seem to find one to recommend. Also, you are right, I rarely see creepers used, that's why my first recommendation is to "rig" a lamp so that it cannot be used within 18" of the floor. That would in my estimation solve the violation. Or... better yet, don't turn off the ventilation and keep it a 4 air changes an hour. BTW... fire is the hazard that would be controlled by the use of a sealed lamp.

Tom and George... It's nice to actually hear from someone that personally knows a person that has been hurt from this hazard. Most people say something like, "I heard once about a guy..." Purely anecdotal and while sad, it is nice to have someone with some first hand knowledge of an account(s). It does help to make the message clearer. [Linked Image]

Bob... I agree with your premise. Welding and cutting would also create a hazard. Actually, that's why it is prohibited by the OSHA regulations to weld or cut in any area with flammable or combustible materials present... that would include a garage. There should always be a designated welding area in a buildin or a "hot-work" permit should be issued after a supervisor has verified that all potential fire hazards have been controlled.

I'm still hoping someone might be able to point me toward a reasonably priced handlamp that would meet the Code requirements. I've Googled it... no luck. I can find the expensive models but nothing under $400.
Posted By: George Little Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 03:59 AM
I would conclude that if the area is classified as Class I Div. 1 or 2 I am duty bound to approve lighting equipment that is so listed. If I go beyond that I'm on my own. So guess what I will do???

If someone wants to grab a protable handheld light plug it in to a receptacle-- go for it.

There's a saying "You can protect the fool but you can't protect the damn fool"
Posted By: safetygem Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 11:27 AM
I wanted to make this point. I have enforced this requirement numerous times over the years.

However, I am working with a fairly large government employer that has over 100 garages and at least 6 handlamps in each garage. You can see where I'm going with this... In order for this employer to comply they are going to have to spend $250,000 of taxpayer money just to buy handlamps.

I'm not sure that they won't fight this based on the premise of a cost-benefit analysis. I believe we both want a safe work place, just don't want this to end up being an excessive compliance burden.
Posted By: tdhorne Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 02:13 PM
iwire Moderator posted 02-16-2005 05:10 PM
Quote
Tom

Mechanics weld cut and grind in this same area you want to use an Class 1 Div 1 lamp.

It makes no sense.

In area like this it is the fuel that should be controlled.

Bob
Bob
The Classified location is not the whole room just the first eighteen inches up from the floor. I've never seen a grinder fastened to the floor or to the bottom shelf of a work bench. As for the welding that can be mitigated by increasing ventilation during that operation. Simply saying that it is too expensive to comply leaves the mechanics in an impossible situation. They have to get the work done but they are not provided with the tools to work safely.
--
Tom H
Posted By: iwire Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/17/05 02:41 PM
Look guys I do care about safety, I do not want anyone to think otherwise.

I do want to add a few things.

It was mentioned that fuel spills are inevitable because of things like the fuel systems being pressurized.

Very true, what is also true is that these modern fuel injected cars have bleeder valves to release the pressure before servicing.

This comes down to proper training of the mechanics.

It was also brought up that the cutting and grinding does not take place on the floor.

Again I agree, but when welding or cutting with a car on a lift the 'hot stuff' hit's the floor.

One last point, when accidents have happened the cause of the accident can most likely be traced to improper fuel handling. As the was the case in the above mentioned incidents.

As much as we may like to think the code can always protect us I do not believe it can. There always has to be a compromise between practicality and results.

Our own NEC lets us know that right away in 90.1(B)

"essentially free from hazard"

Now not once have I said not to enforce the code as it stands only that I do not agree with it.

Everyone have a great day and work safe. [Linked Image]

Bob
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 01:47 AM
The hazards that concern me with the A-bulb drop are
-burns
-flamibles contacting the hot bulb shattering the glass igniting
-the light is droped onto an area of flamibles

I can't say much about what location areas are classified as.

I can say there should be a middle area between the old drop lights and a hazordous location work light.

Here is a hazardous drop light: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...0&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Does your work light need to have non sparking gaurds? If you take it to that level then you need non sparking tools. Would that light fit in tight areas or even be used?

The reality is the A-bulb burns too hot. You use a enclosed florescent and you would be fine. To take is a step more here is an LED work lights:
http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/search.jsp?search=all&query=drop+light

I seen a manufactured drop light once that looked like it was made from 12" of rope light. Was small, durable, & not hot. The tec loved it. But he showed how indestructable it was one time too many.

The scrader valve can be used to release the fuel pressure if the vehic has one. Another way I see fuel spills is removing a tank or pump. Getting fuel out of a tank with a bad pump can be difficult. They have check balls if the filler tubes to keep the fuel in during a roll over. They almost never have a drain plug or tube.

On time I seen a tec removing a pump/float that was in the upper side of a tank. The a-bulb drop light was hooked near by. He poped the ring loose holding the float in. That opens a 5" hole in the tank. There was much more fuel than expected cause the float was stuck so it read empty. Fuel poared out onto somthing that deverted it both ways around the light. I yelled at him & unpluged the light. He managed to get it away from the fuel and drain pan.

We are talking all about fuel and forgetting about cleaners and solvants which have a much lower flash point.

Creapers are used when it is a quick fix. Fuel and solvents are not always just on the floor. They can be in a tank, on the bench, on a dissasembled auto.

I have not tried this but I would bet if you took a florescent drop light (with the wall wart transformer) or some other enclosed low voltage work light it would not light up a puddel of gasoline if you threw it down. You could probibly grab it by the cord and beat it into the fuel covered cement a few times.

Tom
Posted By: rbalex Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 02:54 AM
Safetygem,

Thank you for you kind welcome.

Actually, I’m fairly familiar with most of those Standards and virtually any facility is easily within the scope of NFPA 497:
Quote
1.1.1 This recommended practice applies to those locations where flammable gases or vapors, flammable liquids, or combustible liquids are processed or handled; and where their release into the atmosphere could result in their ignition by electrical systems or equipment.

Unfortunately it’s only a Recommended Practice so it’s often preempted by other NFPA Standards. [See Section 1.3]

NFPA 497 is the only NFPA Standard that truly approaches electrical area classification any where near analytically; the other cited Standards are generally prescriptive. It makes them easier to enforce but, in my opinion, many of the requirements of those other Standards are overkill. Thus leaving you with the situation you’re in - not really wanting to pay the cost of full compliance because you know you really don’t need to technically – only legally.

Like Iwire I’d still never recommend non-compliance. I’m professionally bound not to. I just believe the prescriptive Standards were created and are now monitored by those not fully cognizant of the cost of fully complying with them. It’s not entirely their fault either. They started with Classification definitions that were too broad and general. Taken to their most conservative interpretation the entire world is, at least, Division 2. That butane lighter in your pocket COULD leak.

Nearly 25 years ago, my employer, a large consulting company, decided that area classification was the job of our Process Engineers; who better knew the potential dangers than they? I must admit, some of them were very good; in fact, I believe they had a better handle on IEC area classification concepts than many of our EEs. The IEC methods are much more analytical and those EEs wanted NAR – no analysis required – they just wanted to point at a picture. Nevertheless, the tendency was gross overkill and our clients simply wouldn’t put up with the costs. Ultimately the process was returned to EEs with “consultation” from the Process Department.

[This message has been edited by rbalex (edited 02-17-2005).]
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 03:53 AM
I still agree with Bob's first comment about grinding and welding. In both cases live sparks and slag will be dropping on the floor. On the other hand the gasoline will be starting it's trip to the floor from well above the magic 18", no doubt accumulating in the auto chassis to some degree.
Simply keeping your hand lamp 18" above the floor is no gurantee of safety.
Posted By: iwire Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 08:24 AM
Tom

Quote
I can say there should be a middle area between the old drop lights and a hazardous location work light.

I agree that is more along the lines I was thinking. [Linked Image]

Here is the Class 1 Division one rated hand lamp Tom linked to.

[Linked Image from buy1.snapon.com]

With a price of $572.00 it will not be bought by many mechanics or garages. Instead the owner will say "You have plenty of light" so now you have the mechanic working in the dark which presents it's own hazards.

Some middle ground should be found.

Bob
Posted By: capt al Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 06:47 PM
First I would like to state iwire is no slouch when it comes to safety. I personally work with him and will continue to do so. Not once have I ever had to worry about a job being unsafe with Bob there.

Second I have to agree with Active 1 these lights are plugged in after we have left the site. What control are we supposed to have after we leave? But if it is my responsibility to provide a drop light for this area. I will supply the one pictured in iwire's post. The customer is going to love a $572.00 light on his bill. I do not see many return service calls back after that.

My whole point here is this is a tool that should be supplied by the mechanic or his employer!
Al
Posted By: walrus Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 09:01 PM
My life as a gasoline tank and eqiuipment installer has led me to many commercial repair garages. The only Exp Prf lights I've seen are in paint booths or in Pits which were common in older garages. 600 hundred bucks for a drop light?? Good luck selling that in Maine [Linked Image]
Posted By: rbalex Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/18/05 09:31 PM
It’s not as common as it used to be, of course, but how many times have you seen this?

A smoker drives up to a fuel pump and sees the “No Smoking” sign. They take one last drag (to make sure its good and hot) and throw the cigarette down – right into the Division 2 location. It’s actually not so much the smoking that’s the problem – it’s the lighting up.

I don’t want to muddy this discussion too much; but the truth is, weld slag and grinding residual aren’t likely to be “hot” enough to ignite a gasoline atmosphere. It depends on how close the work is to the classified location of course. The AIT for gasoline varies by grade and brand but it’s generally considered to be greater than 280C (536F). That’s pretty high.

However, the surface temperature of a lamp can easily get that hot and, more importantly, sustain it. During breakage it can also deliver sufficient energy to ignite an atmosphere.

I’ve worked on process units where the piping operates above the AIT of the product. While it is often ‘insulated for safety,” the “safety” is for personnel not ignition. The piping could conceivably ignite a remote process leak. That doesn’t remove the electrical area classification requirements.

See the Scope for 497 that I listed above. Electrical area classification is to prevent ignition by electrical sources only. Other ignition sources are relevant only to the extent that they are so much more likely than the electrical system that the electrical system can be ignored completely.
Posted By: Joey D Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/27/05 06:09 PM
I have wired maybe 7 Valvoline Instant Oil change places and they all had air exchangers that drew air out of the basement to conforn to code. This is the only places I have ever used this system. Even a body shop I wired last year with 2 floors.
Any spray booth I have wired avoid anything inside it at all to avoid the code requirements. They have glass on the ceiling with lights over the glass. The mixing room does require a recpt for the computer and a recept for the paint mixers which cost plenty.
Posted By: hbiss Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 02/28/05 05:30 AM
Another way I see fuel spills is removing a tank or pump. Getting fuel out of a tank with a bad pump can be difficult. They have check balls if the filler tubes to keep the fuel in during a roll over. They almost never have a drain plug or tube.

There have been at least three repair shops in this area burned to the ground in the last few years due to this practice. Every one was ignited by an incandescent hand lamp.

-Hal
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/01/05 01:05 AM
Here is a few drop light auto shop fires: http://www.worldofweb.com/fire/PressRelease.cfm?PressReleaseID=198

"Technicians were repairing one of the vehicles’ fuel lines when gasoline leaked to the ground and a drop light fell to the ground breaking the light bulb and ignited the flammable liquid."

http://atlanticville.gmnews.com/News/2004/0116/Front_Page/003.html

"was started when worker Joseph Noonan dropped an electronic droplight on the ground."

I think they ment electric drop light.

This one was not from a drop light but shows fuel ignited above 24": http://server.firehouse.com/hotshots/photostories/2001/oct/29_ks.html

"tank fell, spilling gasoline. Workers attempted to shut off ignition sources in the area, but they were unable to work fast enough.

"All the ignition sources were up to code (at least 24 inches off the floor,")"

You can find a lot of auto shop fire news stories on the web but not enough state the cause. A good number of the ones with a cause are related to making fuel repairs but don't give enough detail.

Tom

Tom
Posted By: hbiss Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/02/05 12:25 AM
I'm thinking that the NFPA needs to take a current look at auto repair shops. Years ago, before fuel injection, pressurized fuel systems and fuel tanks that cannot be drained, fires like this were much less common and I believe that's when the code was written.

I won't discount worker ignorance and nothing is going to be idiot proof but I think much can be improved code wise to minimize fuel fires.

-Hal
Posted By: safetygem Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/02/05 02:13 PM
Tom... Thanks for those links. [Linked Image]

They really underscore the potential hazard of an "ordinary" fixture in a auto repair garage. [Linked Image]

There are some really great photos in each of those stories that illustrate the point. I'm going to use them in an education effort in a couple of weeks with the representatives of the employer I mentioned in an earlier post that has over 100 garages.

Those were great links!
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/03/05 05:40 AM
Here are a few more links:
http://www.kccall.com/News/2003/0103/Front_Page/018.html
"Benjamin L. Perkins, 20, a resident of Kansas City, was killed in an intense, fast moving fire

Heat from a hand held work light apparently ignited gasoline spilled on the floor of the shop, according to fire officials."
http://www.mykawartha.com/ka/news/kawartha_lakes/story/2604115p-3019070c.html

"Three injured, one seriously in auto shop fire in Lindsay
Mar 1, 2005"
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=ny&vol=080&invol=0239

"evidence before the grand jury was sufficient to establish that the fatal explosion underlying this homicide prosecution was triggered by a spark from a non- explosion proof trouble light. According to the evidence, the spark was produced when the unprotected bulb was struck by a stream of water from a high pressure washer."
http://www.karmustang.com/fueltankfire.html
Posted By: electure Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/03/05 06:54 PM
Maybe this will work for you.

Since the area below 18" is classified, we put handlamps on a (>18" from) ceiling mounted cord reel.


[Linked Image]

When fully extended, this light will not quite reach 18" from floor level. Therefore, it's not in the classified area.
Most of the work is done with the vehicle on a hoist anyway


[Linked Image]

Now if they'd just quite buying the ones with the convenience receptacle in them.......
Posted By: walrus Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/04/05 11:17 PM
Interesting that this should happen in Maine ,maybe 40 miles from my house.
http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=109837&z=179
Quote

WASHINGTON - A roaring fire erupted Wednesday afternoon at Vigue Bros. auto garage on Route 17, near the intersection of Route 220, when a mechanic was removing a gasoline tank from a vehicle being repaired. The mechanic was taken by personal vehicle to an area hospital after suffering burns while trying to extinguish the fire, Fire Chief Thomas Johnston said Wednesday. The chief did not know the worker's last name, but said he had been working on the vehicle. He did know that the man was treated and then released from the medical facility.


The combination of tires, gasoline and other flammable items typically inside a repair station fueled the 1 p.m. blaze at the auto repair shop and used-car sales business, Johnston said. The blaze drew about 45 local and mutual aid firefighters from Washington, Union, Jefferson, Somerville and Whitefield, he said, as well as equipment and engines from those towns.

Vigue Bros. is owned by Tim and Chris Vigue, Johnston said, noting they started the business about 15 years ago.

The garage and all equipment were destroyed, Johnston said, noting firefighters were able to access the office and remove business records and computer information.

Johnston believes three people were working at the time the fire broke out, but no one else was injured. Two vehicles inside the garage were also ruined. The chief did not have a dollar amount of damage to the property.

Because the condition of the building was unsafe once the fire was doused, an excavator was brought in to help knock down the remaining structure and smother the fire.

The local TV news reporter said the owner claimed the light that dropped and broke was supposed to be Explosion proof [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by walrus (edited 03-04-2005).]
Posted By: hbiss Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/05/05 01:33 AM
Electure, I can't believe that would last very long. Mechanics are going to want to pull it horizontally to reach areas not directly under the reel. Maybe that will work with the vehicle 5 feet up on a lift (still think it would be a PITA) but isn't going to cut it at all on the floor.

I think two things need to be done here. First is that the areas need to be reclassified where fuel system work is done. Second, vehicle manufacturers need to take some responsibility and make fuel systems safer to work on such as by adding provisions to safely drain a fuel tank when it needs to be removed.

-Hal
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/05/05 03:31 PM
"owner claimed the light that dropped and broke was supposed to be Explosion proof"

Maybe just because a light is explosion proof does not mean it's safe if it's droped and breaks. The explosion proof work light I seen listed were fluorescent but there could be incandescent out there.

Seems more like the problem is with an incondescent lamp when the bulb breaks the filiment ignites fuel vapors.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...16961-1209528?v=glance&s=electronics


These are not listed as explosion proof but are sold as almost unbreakable and shock resistant. If it's like others I seen it will have a power switch under the rubber end cap. By keeping the lamp light weight made with flexable ruber and plastic it would take some effort to break one. It does not have a outlet in it and it runs cool.

Tom
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/06/05 04:46 PM
I have trouble accepting the report that an explosion-proof drop light broke, and started the fire.
Is it possible?....sure, anything is possible. BUT-
This hazard is taken into account in UL testing. Such lamps are required to have "cages" over the bulbs, and the tests almost guarantee that the globe will be of very heavy tempered glass. In some cases, there is also a device required to cut power to the lamp if the globe is broken.

And- say what you want about drop lights- I've seen a number of places use $8, 500w halogen lights in place of them. I think this is less safe, from a fire viewpoint; but it does give the mechanic excellent light!
Posted By: capt al Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/06/05 05:32 PM
Walrus, interesting post about the garage drop light fire. That garage was 8 miles from my dad's home. Explosion proof light? Sure it was. It must have melted in the fire.
Al
Posted By: walrus Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/06/05 11:33 PM
Seems to me if you're going to sell a mechanic a light thats exp. proof and meant to be used in the repair of autos( and all that entails as far as abuse goes). It shouldn't start a fire in the course of normal work and dropping it is normal. I have no idea what really happened, it just struck me funny that a garage around here had a listed Exp Prf. light. Personally I doubt it was Exp. Prf. Having worked on cars in a shop, the flourescent ones I've used would be nearly impoosible to break without swinging them like a baseball bat.
Posted By: electure Re: Commercial Garage Handlamps - 03/07/05 10:00 PM
With all the talk of the high prices of explosion proof handlamps, we might keep another thing in mind.

A lube reel and hose, 1/2"X50' will run about $600.00 (reel/hose only)

A Snap-on open end wrench set 1/4" to 1-5/8" is priced at $1,088.00

Both these items are found in lots of auto garages.

It's an expensive business for outfitting properly.
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