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Posted By: MikeP Extension cords - 01/11/05 09:37 PM
I would like to thank all of you who replied to my question in regards to Power strips it was most helpful.

And of course I have another one

Power drill connected to a extension cord that is 12-3 and plugged into another extension cord that is also 12-3 and that is plugged into an electrical outlet. being used indoors no in-line GFCI

Yes or No

Mike
Posted By: DougW Re: Extension cords - 01/15/05 10:22 PM
Per OSHA? I think if there's any chance of H2O around (or being used in a basement) it needs a GFCI.

The gauge of your extension cord might also depend on the length. a 25-50' 12/3 should be OK, but a 100' 12/3 is probably too small.

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 01-15-2005).]
Posted By: tdhorne Re: Extension cords - 01/26/05 05:37 AM
Is this on a construction site?
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Tom H
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Extension cords - 01/26/05 05:37 PM
34-year-old dies after electrocution
FROM STAFF REPORTS

CHEBOYGAN - A Koehler Township man is dead after being electrocuted while working on his car.
State police said Donald Melvin Wright, 34, was using an electric saw to cut the exhaust system off his vehicle Monday morning when a damaged cord made contact with the wet garage floor.
Family members reported Wright missing after he failed to pick up his son from preschool Monday morning.
Wright was found by his family and police at his home about 1 p.m. Officials attempted to revive the man with CPR, but he did not respond.
Wright's death has been ruled accidental.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Extension cords - 01/26/05 06:45 PM
Which is why we require GFCI in garages and unfinished basements.

The OP seemed to imply his tools were being used in the finished portion of the house so there is a modicum of safety (floor made of an insulating material) but you will never hear me say a GFCI is a bad idea.
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 02:32 AM
My understanding of the OSHA regulations is, if this is a homeowner using the drill in his own home, this is fine. If it is an employee using the drill during work time at the other person's home, the receptacle or cord needs GFCI protection.
OSHA was formed to protect the employees, because studies showed that the employer was not.

Pierre
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 03:14 AM
If that is the OSHA rule it certainly not enforced. I know in new construction, as soon as the power hits the interior outlets the trades start using them. I don't see any GFCI cords. They are protected between the time they pull the tug/set meter and when the interior is finished because everyone is on the GFCI garage outlet.
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 03:46 AM
In most cases (but not all) it is usually enforced only when a problem has occurred on the jobsite and a visit has ensued.

Because it is not enforced, does not make it any more legal.

Pierre
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 06:25 AM
Pierre, I sorted this out, the OSHA GFCI rule is 1926.404(b)(1)(ii)
"Ground-fault circuit interrupters. All 120-volt, single-phase 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets on construction sites, which are not a part of the permanent wiring of the building or structure and which are in use by employees, shall have approved ground-fault circuit interrupters for personnel protection ..."

The operative words are "not part of the building wiring". Once they power up the receptacles in the house the trades can use them without GFCIs.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 12:20 PM
Quote
527.6 ... (A) Receptacle Outlets. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15-, 20-, and 30-ampere receptacle outlets that are not a part of the permanent wiring of the building or structure and that are in use by personnel shall have ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel. If a receptacle(s) is installed or exists as part of the permanent wiring of the building or structure and is used for temporary electric power, ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided. For the purposes of this section, cord sets or devices incorporating listed ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel identified for portable use shall be permitted.

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 01-27-2005).]
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 06:21 PM
Are you saying everytime I plug something into a receptacle I have to apply "temporary power" rules?
I believe this would refer to plugging a cord into permanent building wiring and extending it to unfinished portions of the building.
Since my previous reply was directed to the OSHA rule, by your reasoning, the maid would need a GFCI adapter on her vacuum since she is protected by OSHA too.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 01-27-2005).]
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 09:41 PM
gfretwell,
No, 527 does not apply everywhere.
Quote
527.6 Ground-Fault Protection for Personnel.
Ground-fault protection for personnel for all temporary wiring installations shall be provided to comply with 527.6(A) and (B). This section shall apply only to temporary wiring installations used to supply temporary power to equipment used by personnel during construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, equipment, or similar activities.

Don
Posted By: George Little Re: Extension cords - 01/27/05 11:10 PM
Very wll put Don. I agree withyou 100%
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Extension cords - 01/28/05 02:37 AM
I am just responding to the OP. His question said nothing about a construction site. He just said "inside". If this is in a warehouse, office or store I don't know of any GFCI requirement and if it is in a residence the "requirement" is even less likley (assuming he is not in the basement or garage where the nearest outlet should be GFCI anyway.)
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Extension cords - 01/28/05 02:14 PM
gfretwell,
If the extension cord is used for any of the following in any occupancy, then GFCI protection is required: "construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, equipment, or similar activities".
Don
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Extension cords - 01/28/05 05:31 PM
Don, If I use the strict intrepretation of that quote we are back to the maid's vacuum. Cleaning is certainly "maintenance".
I know we are rapidly approaching the time when AFCI and GFCI wil be on every circuit but I am not sure we are there now.
Posted By: therain4 Re: Extension cords - 01/28/05 09:51 PM
I don't know if it is an OSHA rule or not but I remember seeing a tag on an extension cord that said you can not plug an extension cord into another extension cord.
Posted By: tdhorne Re: Extension cords - 03/10/05 10:20 PM
I don't think we ever got to a conclusion on this one.
Quote
:527.6 Ground-Fault Protection for Personnel.
Ground-fault protection for personnel for all temporary wiring installations shall be provided to comply with 527.6(A) and (B). This section shall apply only to temporary wiring installations used to supply temporary power to equipment used by personnel during construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, equipment, or similar activities.
The language that I have high lighted with bold type would seem to limit the application to temporary wiring only. I still have not seen anything that requires that cords or tools supplied from the buildings permanent wiring system must have GFCI protection of personnel.
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Tom H
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Extension cords - 03/11/05 02:12 PM
Tom,
The extension cord itself is temporary wiring. If you are using 15 or 20A 125V circuits for "construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, equipment, or similar activities", then GFCI protection is required. OSHA requires the GFCI protection at the line end of the extension cord. The cord itself requires GFCI protection if you are an employee doing any of the above.
Don
Posted By: safetygem Re: Extension cords - 03/11/05 03:44 PM
Somehow I missed this thread when originally posted.

I'd just like "chime in" and throw in my 2-cents.

Don you are correct, an extension cord is considered to be temporary wiring. If the tool or equipment is plugged directly into the wall receptacle, then a GFCI would not be required, but, an extension cord does require the protection.

As an aside MikeP never updated us on this situation, but, Greg may also be correct, which seems like a contradiction of my argument.

The reason Greg may be correct is that the OSHA construction standards are only applicable to activities similar to what Don referenced in his earlier post, which comes from the NEC. The OSHA definition of when this applies is:
Quote
1926.32(g)

"Construction work." For purposes of this section, "Construction work" means work for construction, alteration, and/or repair, including painting and decorating.

Maintenance is excluded and is considered to be a General Industry activity and there aren't any similar GFCI requirements in the General Industry standards.

Having said that, it is possible (but unlikely) that a compliance officer may attempt to issue a General Duty Clause citation for failure to provide a workplace "free from recognized hazards." Recognition in this case could be the inclusion of the requirement in the NEC or 70E.

[This message has been edited by safetygem (edited 03-11-2005).]
Posted By: tdhorne Re: Extension cords - 03/11/05 07:02 PM
Calling an extension cord temporary wiring is, IMuHO, an absurdity. You will have a tough time convincing me that the intent of the Code Making Panel was to apply the rules for "Temporary Installations" to UL listed extension cords. I just cant see the laying out of an extension cord as an "installation." I think that this issue is ripe for a formal interpretation.
--
Tom H

IMuHO = In My unHumble Opinion. If it were merely my humble opinion would I even utter it let alone defend it?
Posted By: George Re: Extension cords - 03/11/05 11:30 PM
tdhorne ---

I agree with you.

It all comes down to:

Do you use a GFCI or risk the cost of proving your position is correct?
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Extension cords - 03/12/05 12:00 AM
Tom,
It really doesn't matter what the CMP would tell us, because if it is used by an employee, OSHA tells us that the cord must have GFCI protection.
Don
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