Question: What experiences have you had with third party electrical inspection agencies?

I heard from one person who wore that hat who said that they were in competition with other agencies, and that the tough guys lost work if they called items such as the support of the wiring systems above a suspended ceiling!

Is that true?

Hint: See 300.23 and Search for "denied" in the NEC

Joe,

I'm on both sides of that question. I hire 3rd party inspection agencies to inspect my work as I am prohibited from doing so. The ones I don't hire again are the ones that aren't thorough. After all, I'm relyiing on them to ensure that I didn't make any errors of commission or omission.

I have personally lost business as an inspector because I insist that electricians comply with all the requirements of the NEC. I may cut a homeowner a little slack, but if you're doing it for $$$, you should do it right, including all the "minor" things.

I'm fortunate that I do not have to rely on the income I make from inspecting, so I really don't care if I do lose business. I do sympathize with those inspectors that get into this situation, since they end up taking on liability for themsilves or their agency by not enforcing all parts of the code.

Tom

Tom, I'm somewhat offended by your selective enforcment approach to inspections. So if I understand your statment- You'll let the homeowner slide with respects to code and make the contractor comply. So we have the homeowner taking work from the contractor, not having to comply with the code 100%, and possibly putting himself/herself in harms way due to lack of code compliance and your approving it??? Please say this isn't happening. You also say you hire people to inspect your work? I wonder if there would be any bias here? I would think a person should be either an inspector a contractor to elimnate any possible appearance of improprieties. I've been an inspector for more than 20 years and I take pride in being very consistent.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-18-2004).]

Joe:
The only complaints re: 3rd party AHJ's has, in the past been scheduling. More often than not, scheduled days/times were not kept. It was not uncommon to sit on site for the day, and noone showing up. No, noone called the EC to say 'the inspector is sick' or 'he didn't show'.

That was the past, and the recent past. Seems the DCA made some 'noise', and it got a lot better.

No, here in NJ we (EC's) cannot 'hire' an inspector, which could easily lead to some situations that noone needs. All inspections have to go thru the local town/municipality.

I also work as an AHJ, and I see both sides of the fence. No, I cannot do EC work in the town that I am AHJ in, NOR any town that 'touches' my town.

Also, as to cutting slack...everyone gets the same rules, the NEC. (period) Yes, a missing plate on a final is a minimal item, but I have to say EVERYONE gets equal enforcement.

John

George,

In the area I live in, it is next to impossible to make a living as an independent inspector. The only mandate for inspection in most unincorporated areas comes from the power company and only applies to the service entrance. The Mountain State is not heavily populated, so a full time independent inspector is not making much of a living & is putting in quite a bit of windshield time.

When I drive 15 or 20 miles,to do an inspection, it can easily take 1 1/2 hours round trip, not counting the actual inspection time. I can't see charging a homeowner a return fee of $70 to $100 (I only get a percentage of the fee) just to make sure he put green tape on the equipment ground of the feeder from his service disconnect to the panel. The same applies to straps that may be wee bit too far apart or a GEC that has not been secured to the structure. I always tell them what needs to be fixed & if it involves minor material that I have on my truck, I give them what they need. but I don't go back to check that the problem was corrected. That is the extent of the slack. If it is a substantial violation (this would be an opinion) then they do have to fix it & pay me to come back.

The political climate in this state is such that we are lucky to be looking at service entrances at all. The legislature is loathe to pass any law that might infringe on the rights of a man and his castle & if it wasn't for power company requirements, there would be virtually no inspection in non-incorporated areas. Maybe someday in the next 20 or 30 years, we might actually require an inspection of the entire electrical system of a building, regardless of its location in this state.

I have a friend who is an AHJ in a certain county. As such, he collects an hourly wage from the county and he frequently makes six or eight visits to inspect a service entrance. The homeowner only had to pay one fee for the buiding permit and we taxpayers subsidize his wages because all those trips cost a lot more in wages than the minimal permit fee that was charged to begin with. Even he allows a homeowner a little slack.

I don't know what it is like in your neck of the woods, but I have been verbally abused & threatened with physical harm for trying to get serious violations corrected on homeowner installations. I don't really care to find out what would happen if I busted every homeowner's chops with a list of minor violations.

So, if you can't forgive me for a slightly uneven enforcement of the NEC, I can live with that, the key word being "live."

Tom

Ya Tom I can forgive you for giving the homeowner a break as long as the job is safe. But you need to give the contractors breaks also. I've marked panels and done minor things for the contractor so he didn't have to make a trip back. I'm a team player and I've been able to sleep at night. Sometimes I'll tell the homeowner you don't get the Gold Metal but we'll give you the Bronze.

Tom:

Do you know Wally Harris, Corporate Chief Inspector for Atlantic Inland?

George,

I haven't ever had to write a violation notice on a contractor. Between us, we've usually had the right materials on our trucks to bring everything into compliance. Of course, 98%of my inspections involve installations put in by DIY'ers or employees of the property owner, the most dreaded of which is a service & feeder inspection for a20 year old mobile home.

Joe,

I haven't met Wally. Corporate offices are so far from my house, it is unlikely that I ever will. I actually get some face time with Bob & Jeff Fitch about every 2 years or so, but they do the traveling.

Happy Holidays to all

Tom

I used the Middle Department Insection Agency in Clarke county Virginia. They do the inspections on behalf of the county. They seemed pretty sharp to me. They kept their appointments to. I found them very reasonable to work with.
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Tom H

I have to agree with John, When I was an EC I used to have to wait all day for the 3rd party and there was no way to get in touch with them. The toqns couldn't help either because they were 3rd party. Plus if you had an emergency on a weekend, you were out of luck. For example a service goes down and you need a "cut-in" card to give to the POCO so that they will hook you back up. GOOD LUCK in trying to reach the 3rd party. The poor store owner had to wait till the next day that the 3rd party was in town.

Harold,

The same complaints that you're making about 3rd party inspectors are also made about contractors. By the time my phone rings after hours or on a weekend, the caller has been through about 10 answering machines or, if they did reach a live person got an incredulous "you want it when?"

It's all about service. There are those that offer it & those that can't bother with being inconvenienced I offer it as an electrical contractor and as an inspector. Of course, if you call me out on a weekend for either, you will be paying more.

Anyway, if you ever go back into contracting, let me know. My rates are reasonable for an inspection, though the travel charges might be a bit much for you to handle.

Tom

I own a 3rd party inspection company .
On Christmas eve, we had 9 homes get hit by high voltage. We arrived on the job 20 minutes after receiving our call on our cell phones.
My company has a live person answer the office phone from 7 am to 6pm. The inspectors all have company phones that are on 24/7. We have very good response times, even for nonemergencies - I am very proud of that.

Pierre

You should be proud of that.

That is IMO the most important service you can provide your customers.

I am proud of the company I work for, we will be at our customers door most times in less than 1 hour and we can mobilize a very large workforce and the materials to work with in just a few hours if needed.

Bob

Pierre

Your success will be because of the fact that you and your partner are concerned with the end result that will ensure safety!

I am sure that there are many others in the same business who feel this way by, but because of competition, cannot do a completely thorough job.

No one is perfect, and we all will miss something, that's a fact!

In the short time that I have known you, I believe you are going to become very successful.

PS: Are there any current job openings for IAEI Certified Electrical Inspectors in your company?

Thanks Bob and Joe

Yes Joe there are openings for certified inspectors in my company - if you are interested, you would be very welcome.

Pierre

Pierre:

You are welcome! Do your inspectors use the 2002 NEC, or the 1999 NYC/NEC?

Joe

Pierre:
You sound like you run a very organized ship. There's NO WAY that I could get an AHJ in 20-30 min. Nor, as a P/T AHJ, could I respond in that time frame. Very rarely does the Twp I work for do "off-hours" inspections; I did one about 6 weeks ago on a Saturday, along with Building & Plumbing. That was OT.

My best to you & yours, have a healthy & happy New Year.

John

Tom,

As a contractor, I too was called out on every day of the week and In the 15 years that I was in business, I think I went out on every holiday that you can think of. New Years, Thanksgiving, etc. There was always something that went wrong and being the owner of my small business, I did the holiday work. I feel like Pierre and John and Bob does, that if you love your work, and if you have a good conscience, you will take good care of your customers. As an AHJ, all of my towns have needed me on weekends already and yes, I have gone out on Sat. and Sun. for inspections. Like the time a school needed to open up on a mon. or the time there was an elec. fire and the people needed heat and the service turned back on, etc. IMHO it is just part of the job.