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Posted By: JG Question for inspectors - 12/04/04 05:06 PM
Atr. 300.13-b Do you require all neutrals to be made up prior to a rough. I have noticed more and more not adhering to this practice, just stab and go.
Posted By: iwire Re: Question for inspectors - 12/04/04 05:12 PM
Welcome to the forum JG.

I am not an inspector but I do get inspected. [Linked Image]

Here in MA all required splices must be made up prior to rough inspections.

The section you quoted only applies to the neutral of multiwire branch circuits so we do not have to splice the neutrals of two wire circuits.

Posted By: George Little Re: Question for inspectors - 12/04/04 05:29 PM
The code only requires that the multiwire branch circuit have "pigtail" connections on the grounded conductor so we don't interrupt the connection to the next outlet. Do it anytime you want to. As an inspector, I want to see it so maybe this will be on the final with the cover plates removed and the receptacles dangling so I can see that pigtail [Linked Image]
If I were an installer, I'd do it for inspection on the rough just from a practical approach. Same thing on a NM job, strip and splice out, terminate the grounds if using metal boxes. Not a code requirement but makes it easier for all of us.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-04-2004).]
Posted By: BigB Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 12:21 AM
George, if you don't mind my asking, just what do you really look for at the final? Do you check each and every device? Should they all be hanging out of the box? No cover plates? What about fixtures?
I have done very little new construction and have never been present at a final for new const., so this is why I ask.
Thanks, B
Posted By: iwire Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 12:36 AM
I could fail a final inspection for a missing cover. [Linked Image]
Posted By: earlydean Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 12:50 AM
Splices (especially grounding) are inspected at the rough inspection. How else can this be done? It is not a final inspection if the wires are hanging out of the boxes. Every receptacle is tested and every switch is checked at the final. I do ask the sparky to open the panel for a look at the final, though.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 12:54 AM
As Bob knows , I am an AHJ and it doesn't matter to me if the neutrals are made up in the circuit panel on the rough. Sometimes there is a service inspection between the rough and the final, and I can check the neutrals then. Last but not least, I can still chek out the neutrals at he final inspection. However I do want the neutrals all spliced up in the boxes on the rough inspection. ( Some homeowners don't know that and I fail the rough until they are made up.) On a final inspection I may not check each and every receptacle, but I do check between 80%-90% of all the receptacles in the house on final inspection. If I start seeing reverse polarity or open grounds, then I start checking each and every receptacle.
Posted By: George Little Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 02:59 AM
On the residential rough inspection I would expect to find the splicing done and any metal boxes bonded on a Romex job and if were a multiwire branch circuit, the grounded conductor "pigtailed". On the final I would expect the circuits to be operational and do a random check with a plug-in tester to check for polarity. I check all AFCI and GFCI devices/breakers. If I run into any polarity issues I ask the contractor to check for polarity on all plugs. If the painter has removed the plates, I will not always cite a violation. I will quite often ask the contractor to open the panel for inspection. Panel ledger marking is a big issue with me. There are a number of things that I'm leaving out but I tried to mention the more common things. I WILL NOT make a punch list for the electrician to use so he knows exactly what he needs to get approval.
Posted By: JG Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 04:05 AM
If the device (recepticle)is able to be removed and disrupt the continuity of the neutral, would this not cover two wire circuits. In my state the state code requires all connections to be made up. Are these considered conections? Are recepticles rated as a line load device?(excluding gfi of course)

[This message has been edited by JG (edited 12-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by JG (edited 12-04-2004).]
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 01:39 PM
I have noticed no one has mentioned lighting at the final inspection. [Linked Image]

Posted By: George Little Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 01:39 PM
JG- we are talking about removing a receptacle for repairs or replacment, not for inspection by the inspector. In any case, if you have a multiwire branch circuit consisting of 2 or 3 ungrounded conductors and one grounded conductor (neutral) you are using the neutral for a common return for 2 or 3 wires. When you interrupt the neutral, this applies usually 240v. to the receptacles down stream from that point where you interrupted the neutral. If you "pigtail" the neutral, this won't happen.
Posted By: George Little Re: Question for inspectors - 12/05/04 01:47 PM
Pierre- If the lights don't work- I can't inspect the receptacles [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

As a matter of fact that is a good point, especially in commercial we see them using a 480/277v. system and the multiwire circuit is common. We need to make sure that the common conductor is "pigtailed" here also in case they choose to replace or relocate a fixture. This item probably gets overlooked quite often by inspectors, present company included.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-05-2004).]
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Question for inspectors - 12/06/04 03:27 PM
Resi 'rough' & comm too:
Spacing & check firewalls (if any)
Splices at all boxes, recept, switch, lighting (recessed & boxes), fan rated boxes, etc.
Grounds must be made-up, metal boxes bonded, jackets cut-back, etc
Neutrals on multi-wire made-up.

Some ec's make-up all splices, some don't.

Final means everything must be 100%. The cover issue? A judgement call, a phone call, or sometimes a red sticker, like Bob says.

BTW, personally I prefer to see all splices 'made-up'; my guys do it as SOP, comm, and what little resi we do.
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