Hi,
I'm wiring a new geothermal heat pump system. It requires a minimum of 2 supply circuits. One for the compressor, fan and electronics and another for 4 heater strips.
My question is related to the wire size required for the 19.2KW heater strips. All 4 strips consume a total of 19.2KW @ 230v. The MCA for the heater strip supply circuit is 110amps. The max breaker is 100 amps.
The NEC table 310-16 lists #1AWG wire for 110amps in the 60 degree column and #2AWG wire in the 75 degree column. While I believe the system connections are rated for 75 degree, I don’t see it posted.
Per code, What is the correct wire size for this setup. Are all heat pump/furnace systems rated for 75 degree terminations?
Thanks in advance for all responses!
Chris

unless you can find on the equipment where it says 75 degrees for the terminations, 110-14(c)1 says to use 60 degree conductors. #1 AWG CU

It is not the wire size that determines the temp-rating you can use.

It is either the size of the terminals or equipment that requires above or below 100 amps that determines the temp column to use unless otherwise marked.


I would be very surprised if you can not use the 75 C column.

I am confused with this.


The minimum circuit ampacity can not be higher than the maximum breaker size.

19.3kw is 80a @ 240v. 100 would seem right.

The MCA of 110a and max breaker size of 100a came straight off of the label. It's my knowledge that the MCA number includes the 125% increase typically applied to HVAC/heat pump compressor systems. As gfretwell talks about in his response, 19.2KW @ 230v equals 83.5amps. You multiply that by 1.25 and get 104.3amps. I'd say the manufacturer is pretty close with the 100 amp breaker.
I'll most likely go with the #1awg and the 100a breaker since I can't find 75 degree termination data.
Thanks again!
C3Contr

If these heaters are 19.2KW at 230V then they would have a resistance of 2.755 ohms.
2.755 ohms at 240 = 87 amps.
87 amps times 1.25 = 108.7 amps
The minimum circuit size for this unit would be 110 amps. The manufacture should be contacted about the label.

I think you will find the toaster strip is rated at 240v. It will be lower if you have 230 going to it.

section 110-14(c)1 says terminatations of 100 amps or less, or 14 thru #1AWG are 60 degree. the original post said 100 amp max breaker. that means 60 degree terminations, unless you can find 75 degree on the equipment. # 1 AWG is the upper limit on the 60 degree terminals, the next section quoted by iwire, starts out with larger than #1 awg, so you can;t use that as the determining factor in un identified terminations.you have to determine what size circuit first.

Trekkie here is a quote from the opening post.


MCA = Minimum Circuit Ampacity.

That statement alone means the terminals are good for 75 C.

Or

If the equipment only draws 90 amps but is equipped with lugs that accept larger than 1 AWG that also tells us that we can use the 75 C rating.

Bob

the manufacter sets the equipment circuit rating with the breaker size of 100 amps. the circuit rating determines if it is under the 60 or 75 degree parts of that section

[This message has been edited by trekkie76 (edited 08-27-2004).]

I think you will find most breakers over 30a are rated at 75c. There is no point most of the time with 30 or less because of 240.4(D)

I agree that most breakers 30A and over are rated 75 degrees, but the original post said he could not find the markings saying that. Which refers you to 110-14(c)1 for circuits rated(based on breaker size) 100 amps or less to use 60 degree column in T310-16. Now in all likelyhood, the terminals are 75 degree, but I say if the terminals aren't identified for 75 degree, then that section must come into play. strictly speaking.

Trekkie I am still not following you, the post states a minimum circuit ampacity of 110 Amps. 110 amp equipment has without a doubt 75 C terminals.

Lets say I have a 90 amp breaker that the terminals are marked 1/0 but not marked as to temperature.

Would you agree that this breaker has 75 C terminals?

Bob

I agree that a breaker marked with the wire size (#1AWG or larger) by association, is listed for 75 degree. The problem is the orginal post stated no markings. I am just saying that, without any markings at all, the terminals are based on 110-14(c)1+2. which is based on breaker size or wire size, but the terminals are unmarked, so we go with circuit(breaker) size as the manufacter sets. I am not sure why they are fusing a 110 MCA at 100 amps(max breaker), but they are the manufacuter, and they must have had to send it to UL or something to market the product. I don't doubt that they aer 75 degree terminals, but strictly speaking without evidence of what the terminal is suited for, 110-14 comes into play.