It has been brought to my attention that most EC's will use the push in terminals for plug and switches, instead of terminating conductors around the device screws.

What's your opinion?

I am not an EC.

I have personally seen the effects of push-in terminated devices. (Some of my photos are posted on the board.)

If there is a screw that is used to tighten the connection, such as with the GFCI receptacles (the ones that have a back-stab hole but require the screw to tighten the connection), I don't see a problem.

If one is relying on a spring type of connection, then I would not trust it.

I have also found that the screws provided in some of the cheaper devices are almost as soft as the copper, and are not very sturdy.

If I understand correctly, 12AWG can no longer be used with push-in connections, right? Why is 14AWG permitted and not 12?...

I have done it both ways in the past. And I have to be honest, I have yet to run across a push-in connection that has failed when properly installed. Not to say that it doesn't happen. I have read about others who run across this all the time. I have seen numerous, and I will repeat NUMEROUS, recepticles that failed when the connection came loose from the screw. I have at times used the push-in connection (on 14 awg only) when pigtailing the circuit. I can only assume that the integrety of the connection lies in the ability of the installer. Also, if the device is overloaded the push-in or screw connection will fail. On the cheaper devices they loose tention and overheat with time. Many times I change all the devices in a home because they can't keep anything plugged in. I guess quality lies with the installer.

Blessings,
Mark

I never use a "pushin connection", but do use the back wired devices where the screw clamps a pressure plate against the wire.
Don

Unless it is the type Don describes I will not use them.

About the only place I have ever used the spring type is on a switch as I will know that the current load is low.

I use the screws! I have spent too many hours on service calls troubleshooting loose connections on backstabbed devices.I have also seen the scorched walls and burnt insulation on the wiring from these faulty connections. My opinion...If the difference in time between backstabbing a device or using the screws, is going to make or break the job, you bid it too low to begin with.

The first thing I look for when I get a complaint about no power on a receptacle or a loss of power on a branch circuit is a loose backstabbed connection. 99% of the time I'm right. It was worse before the restriction on wire size to #14, but I always use the terminal screw.

John

I too use the screws.I've seen several backstabs cause problems.

It doesn't take much more time when you do a few jobs that way.

Russell

I would personally like to thank UL for the continued buisiness i recieve from thier blatant inepptitude

carry on fellas!

~S~

Look here!

I often get service calls where an office has a portion of their power out, and they've checked and found all the breakers on.
Nearly without fail, this is caused by a backstabbed receptacle that has been used as a feed through.
I've troubleshot friends' homes the same way over the phone, without even a look.
Newer buildings built after the "cheapo" receptacles wouldn't accept #12 conductors, or other buildings that have wirenuts and pigtails don't present the same type of problems.
Like Sparky said, thanks for the work, but I'd gladly trade it for safe, reliable systems...S
(Yes, Joe, that's a great representation! I especially like the loose ground terminal)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-18-2003).]

Just a thought: Why do the manufactures put both screw terminals AND - apparently substandard (*) - push-in terminals on the devices? Why not drop the screw terminals and spend the money on good quality push-in terminals instead?

* As I understand from the messages above. I have of course no personal experience with them.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 11-18-2003).]

North of the border, every electrician I have talked to will not use the spring loaded push in terminals, the time you save using them does not justify the time you spend trouble shooting a problem. However in the early 1980's the opposite was true (the condo I live in, was built with the electrician using receptacles that only had push in terminals (no screw terminals}). The use of push in terminals was common then. Perhaps we have learned something.

heh!~ yeah crash.... we've learned that it is not good practice to give the EC doing the original construction the maintanence contract also...

When I built my house 20 years ago ...

I used the push in terminals on fairly cheap recepts. 20 amp circuits 12g wire.

During remodeling/repainting this fall I took out all of the recepts and replaced them with spec grade recepts and used the preasure plate fasteners.

The old wires and old recepts looked to be in new condition. No arcing and not heat discolleration.

For the past 5 years each circuit using push in terminals had 2 computers with monitors running full time and a heavily used laser printer. There were other small devices on each circuit.

But heck the clamp plates are easier to install and remove.

I agree that the back stab is crap for a connection. I make hooks for everything, even GFI's. I feel the hook makes a tighter connection. I can't count the number of GFI's I have pulled from a outlet box only to have the wire come out from under the terminal.

A lot of appliance switches, particularly portable fans, come with "back stab" connections where the wire is just pushed in and a flimsy spring tab keeps it from backing out. Makes for speedy assembly.

One fan I was replacing a power cord on yesterday had tinned the end of the conductor going into the switch. It pulled right out.

I twisted the wires tightly together on the replacement conductor. Didn't tin it. I stabbed the switch. This held. Go figure.....

Think of it this way. A wire wrapped around a screw or clamped between two metal plates or between a set-screw and the terminal walls (in the case of back WIRED connections) has more surface area in contact with the terminal.

The only thing holding a back STABBED connection together is the edge of a razor thin piece of brass or copper. Not much surface area in that case.

Seems like it would present a higher resistance to current flow and thereby increasing heat.

Pre-EPA 'energy-slasher' programs, the refrigerator outlet in trailer kitchens had very high odds of the first to go if poke wired.

It is probably not the case with local enforcement, but UL and national codes cannot summarily prohibit poke-wired devices. They just need to write testing procedures to flush out terminations that crap out too easily.

Offhand, NRTLs can be somewhat political in their own right—as mediators between commodity-level building-materials sellers and construction-enforcement folks [AHJs.] At times, the investment by and safety of the end user is only superficially of any consequence.