If I installed the required 20a circuit in a bathroom,actually I am installing 3 on the vanity countertop, would an additional receptacle in a separate toilet area that is part if the bathroom need to be 20a also?

The sub-room will only contain the toilet and a piece of furniture for the linens.

Code references please or why.

Thanks,
Jim

You do not have a bathroom.

Defined: Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub, or a shower.

210.11(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with Section 210-23(a).



[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 09-26-2003).]

Ryan,

This is in a bathroom, it is walled off only for privacy.

I guess if it is a toilet only in a seperate room it is not considered a "Bathroom" therefore the rules don't apply. Although the nec defines a bathroom as an "area" not a "room" which could lead someone to say this is in the same area.

so maybe we should have an added definition of 'watercloset'?

then 210.8(A)(1) & 210.11(C)(3) would apply?

In the definition of bathroom, it is not defined as a room, but an area.
This case is just the reason for this definition. The receptacle for that area can be run from the bathroom 20 amp circuit and it will meet the code requirements. Don't forget the GFCI protection of this receptacle.
This "sub-room is part of the 'area' of the bathroom definition.

Pierre

well that's my Q here Pierre, if it's not definitionally a "bathroom", does gfi protection apply?

Ryan,

The NEC handbook, in the explanatory text following 210.8(A)(1) states: Exhibit 210.9 from the Handbook shows two rooms. The first room entered has hand basins in it, and a second door. Through the second door one enters a room containing a bathtub and a toilet.

The two rooms form the area of the bathroom. The toilet in a room by itself with a hand basin in the room outside the toilet door is a bathroom area.

Jim,
I guess that you aren't installing three circuits to the vanity, rather three receptacles on one circuit.

My take on 210.11(C)(3)exception, is that one can add additional outlets to the required bath 20 amp circuit serving only one bath. . .as long as the additional outlets are inside that same bath. However, I am not told that ALL the outlets within that bath MUST be added to that 20 amp circuit. Rather, I can pick and choose.

The GFI requirement for receptacles in the bathroom is blanket, gotta have it.

For me, the common sense logic, of the larger capacity circuit serving the vanity and thereby the large hairdryer load, is covered once the receptacle is at the vanity. Additional outlets (lights, fans, WC receptacle) may be added to the 20 amp bath circuit, but are not required to be.

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 09-27-2003).]

my own preference is to run a dedicated circuit to each bath, regardless of how many baths there may be to take advantage of that very exception.

this allows fop load side wiring of shower recessed of fan/lights within the 3' zone.

it eliminates needing blank faced gfi's

note HB Exibit 210.9 ,(thank you Al ) and the proximity of both fixture & switch to the 'zone'

i'd load side that even if the manufacturing instructions didn't require it

i also run part of a lighting circuit into the bath for say, a vanity or other non-zone light

all lights on a gfi can add to the hazard of whatever made the gfi trip out

ElectricAl,

No, this is 3 20a circuits for 4 receptacles. Both say they get ready at the same time with blower dryers etc, so theres 2 ckts. The third is for a coffee maker on the vanity.

Heh! [chuckle] [/chuckle]

That vanity has more power than most kitchen counters complete!!!

If they can spell it out in the handbook why the heck not in the regular book. I would use the 20 amp circuit and gfi protect it anyway but why leave it somewhat vague. I worked in a house that has a toilet in the bedroom, and sink and tub separated from this area. 20 amp? gfci protected?

It has a toilet.... It ia a bathroom! But, you can take the load side of your many GFI's in the other bath room down to feed this one. You've got almost 10,000 watts of power up there. I'm sure none will be missed.
Is there going to be anything large used in this other bathroom while they "get ready"?

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 11-04-2003).]

Yes, upstairs will have the teenage daughter at the same time.

Jim - this is just some informational feedback regarding an experience I just had at home.
Just bought an older home so there is no dedicated 20A ckt in bath. The smaller master bath has a sit-down dressing area next to the bath. We get up in the morning, turn on a 12.5A space heater in the bath, bath lights (120w), in the dressing area (we found out later was connected to the bath circuit) is a 6w clock radio and a 300w hair curlers appliance that gets turned on before we take a shower...getting out of the shower we turn on a 1440w hair dryer....everything works fine, no blown breaker....on a 15A circuit!! Reason - this is an 'overload' and breakers take time to heat up and 'trip'. Before the breaker has time to heat up enough to trip the circuit we are done showering/prepping and the appliances are turned off. I didn't find out about the 15A circuit until our hair dryer died and my wife replaced it with a 1875w unit....that was just enough to push it over the edge and trip the breaker. I've since installed a dedicated 20A GFCI receptacle in the bathroom for the 12.5A space heater and the 1875w hair dryer.