2002 NEC Section 230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.

This is NOT a Code VIOLATION! This image only shows how the rule was enforced by an Electrical Inspector in the Midwest.



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 02-09-2003).]

I heard a story one time that the ingenious installer just built a box and filled it with concrete mix ie. no water.
The bag(s) said "concrete".

Glenn

This picture was relocated from the Violations area, and is still there and closed.

This location here is a better place for this image to be posted so that it can be discussed by those who understand the specific rule in 230.6 and how it is supposed to be applied.

Joe,where would you as an inspector draw the line? Or could this be extended indefinitely?

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 02-09-2003).]

While doing a remodel of a condo building we had to move the service from the cellar to the first floor lobby. We went about 30' into the building this way. We ran 2- 2" RNCs and the carpenters formed and poured them in.

ga.sparky56

I personally would have allowed the service raceway here, containing the service entrance conductors to be installed without the concrete encasement.

There are millions of these installations around the USA. During my own career while inspecting service raceways in the Northeast, I have seen many that had to pass over the oil tank to reach the service equipment because of the entry into a basement.

I believe the LA City Code includes some rule that allows the raceway with service entrance conductors to be run into a building for more than 25 feet.

I don't have that Code, so I cannot be sure.

If someone from the Los Angeles area can take a look, I would appreciate that help.

Would this particular installation have been used to obtain the proper clearance from the corner w/o using a disco outside?

I would say so, and the duct would have been a question as it relates to working spaces above, etc., rules

Pardon my ignorance here, but would it be a requirment for that lump of concrete to be tied to the wall, or can we just hang that much weight off of the box?

TW

Since the maximum dimension is not specificed in the code, only the inspectors approval or disapproval makes it code compliant or not.

I don't think concrete should make us believe that the conductors are outside of the house. A drywall wrapping would appear equivalent.

A better location appears to be on the other wall, but I not would require that it be moved or that the conduit be placed in concrete.

Train, the only time I ever saw anything like this, they drilled the wall and put in rebar, and made a sort of rebar cage. Then formed it and poured concrete in.

so how far does the wireway extend here?

Sparky:
A pure guess; judging by the eyeball of experience, I would venture 3 to 4 feet of conduit.
John

Joe, have you ever seen this in a residental setting that was quite a distance inside the building?

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 02-11-2003).]

When working for a utility who did not install code sized cables, I required the electrical contractor to install the point of service termination within 18 inches of where it entered the building. IE: If the service conduits entered thru the floor, the bottom of the termination was supposed to be within 18 inches of the floor. Often times the contractor installed it wherever he pleased and the inspector signed it off anyway.
bob

No, I have never have seen this until this image was proivided, and at Joe McPartland's seminar in the 70's.

The reference in the code seems clear. Is there a problem with the rule, and its application?

Would'nt it also apply to every raceway service entrance ?

please explain.

Posted by George


What do you mean, would you not accept this if it went 100 feet?

I would say it would be code compliant.

I agree with Train Wire it would be good to know if that block of concrete is dowelled to the wall or hanging on the die cast connector.

In the installation I was involved with the carpenters supported the concrete

I was just curious about how common this was. And how much Joe as an inspector,had dealt with it.I know that I've only seen it done the one time.

I believe one of McPartland’s pictures was of a conduit with 4160V feeding a roof-mounted unit substation. It had been “concrete” encased through the building interior, {maybe for 25 feet} but the “concrete” had been mixed with Vermiculite, so was just about worthless from a mechanical protection standpoint. The recipe for the suspended-in-place concrete had been listed some obscure document, so the inspector had to accept it as installed.