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Posted By: Joe Tedesco Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/24/03 04:03 PM
First, a DEVICE is defined as a "unit of an electrical system that carries but does not use electricity" such as a duplex receptacle and single or three-way switch, etc.

Is it better to spec out the best quality products, and which ones would you recommend?

I have seen many on the shelves, and have also found where some don't stand up to continued used, like in hotels where they have to use tape to keep the cord plugged into the wall!

We had a discussion here a while back that asked a similar question, and instead of linking to that thread, I wanted to set up this new thread hoping we'll encourage new members to come aboard.

Any comments, here or pictures?
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/24/03 09:18 PM
Joe:
Is this another test of the old adage "you get what you pay for"?

We/I use "spec" grade devices. I know there is no industry standard of "grades" but the "pricier" devices do not cause any problems "down the road". We also install "Decora" type devices when the decorator/architect specs them, but I make sure the supply house has "real" ones. There was a rash of off-shore crap floating around for a while; (China, mostly). One supply house had a bunch of it, we got some delivered, and they came back awful quick to pick it back up. The GFI's lasted 2-3 days.

I feel the "cheap" stuff primarily is available at the "Big Boxes", and some resi EC's shop there for the bargains. We/I primarily do comm work.

The above is my humble opinion, and is not to be construed as derogitory to any country, mfg, EC (Sparkies) or "Big Box".
John
Posted By: Fred Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/24/03 10:00 PM
Even in residential work I use spec grade devices. Leviton makes a very good 15A duplex (BR-15I)that is back wired(pressure plates)and costs less than $2.00. Everywhere else I'm exclusively a Hubbell man. You won't find and Hubbell $.39 duplex receptacles but you will have a hard time finding a Hubbell device that is defective or worn out.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/24/03 10:19 PM
This is very true - stick with spec grade and higher.

At my mom's I replaced all the outlets with Leviton Spec. Grade devices. However these are not back-wire - they're side wire (wrap around the screw).

Haven't had one get cracked ... yet. Same thing with the sockets in my apartment - all Leviton spec-grade.

I had a bad experience with a Decora device I installed at my mom's -- purely as a try-out.

Apparently someone (my kid brother probably) forced a three-pin plug into it or twisted it and cracked the face! It has been replaced by a Bryant/Hubbell spec. grade socket.

For the money you spend on Decorator-style devices you're better off getting "normal" Spec-grade I think.

Recently I've come to prefer Eagle/Cooper and Hubbell/Bryant spec. devices though.

For instance the 15-amp sockets have triple-wipe contacts that hold the plug in very tight. And I'm not kidding about tight, you have to give the cord cap a good pull to be able to get it out of the socket!!

Even though Leviton specs grip the plugs firmly enough, they still seem too loose in comparison with the Eagle/Cooper and Hubbel stuff. Next time a socket in my house requires replacement I've got a pair of Hubbles and one Cooper in my junk box ready for installation.

The problem is how easy can I get them: Home Depot pretty much sells only Leviton products (one H.D. in New Jersey did have Bryant 5-15s - where I picked up two).

And the local hardware stores usually just sell the crappy "residential" stuff that is very prone to breakage, in my experience.

At Lowes you can get the Cooper/Eagle spec grade stuff - that's where I got the one Eagle outlet that I have.

I have a very old Hubbell single 1-15 receptacle with the two T-slots that I found at a junk store. I plugged a cap into it to see how worn out it was and guess what, the contacts still had spring-action in them and held the prongs securely!! [Linked Image]

What do you think of Pass & Seymour sockets? I used one (again as a try-out) and it seemed OK.

I'll tell you one thing though - avoid General Electric outlets - especially the ones sold at K-Mart. But you all probably know this.

You can just tell by looking at them that they're not going to last any length of time - even Leviton's "residential" line sold at the big Orange store is cheaper and better (and that one is true crap I think).

'Scuse the long post. [Linked Image]
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/24/03 11:53 PM
We've used p&s residental and spec grade devices for the last 5 years with few problems.
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/25/03 08:03 AM
Thanks for your comments. it helps when they are directed to the specific questions asked.

Does anyone have any stories about defective or misapplied products such as those mentioned here?
Posted By: iwire Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/25/03 12:07 PM
Where durability is going to be a problem I would go Hubbell "Specification Grade" every time.
Posted By: George Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/25/03 03:46 PM
I use the backwire spec grade recepts, Leviton or Cooper/Eagle about $2.25.

The backwiring saves as much time in installing as they cost in price over the midrange recepts about $1.50.

I have had problems with Levition lighted switches. Three failed in the first 2 days on a stairway. The one at the top still works so I now ignore the one on the bottom.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/25/03 06:37 PM
I've had cord caps come with missing screws or screws with stripped threads (where the thing would just keep turning after it was tightened all the way). These were mostly Nema 1-15 caps.

One bakelite lampholder I bought for a table lamp came with an improperly cast shell (big crack around the nipple that screws into the threaded pipe in the lamp.

That's about it...I've taken them back to the retailers who exchange them with no problems. But usually you find out about missing terminal screws when you're settling down to do your project way after the store (on the other side of the city) has shut down for the night. :\
Posted By: pseudonym Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/25/03 09:32 PM
Which device manufacturer provides training and technical information?

Should they be held liable for misapplication of their products by a user?
Posted By: nesparky Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/26/03 04:54 AM
The customer gets what they pay for. If they accept my bid I will use spec grade or better devices every time. But if the GC/ owner want to beat me up on price they get the cheapest UL listed devices I can find.
As Hotline said you get what you pay for.
Posted By: sparky Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/26/03 02:28 PM
really??

anything with a NRTL sticker should be just as good, ergo safe as the next right?

are u insinuating we can buy safety here?

interesting....
Posted By: iwire Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/26/03 02:38 PM
I would say as safe as the next, it is durabilty that should change.

But if it breaks then it could leave live stuff exposed like this.
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000213.html

So is it as safe?

As sparky said, interesting.
Posted By: HouseOfPower Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 01/27/03 12:09 AM
I use the P & S devices, except for the GFI outlets. The P&S GFI's get dirty too easy if your hands aren't clean. I use eagle GFI outlets. The leviton devices seem to crack and break because of its rear outside shell.
Posted By: John Steinke Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 02/07/03 12:58 AM
Sparky, you may have confused "safety" with "quality." Just as a Mercedes has to pass the same DOT standards as a Yugo, no one ever considered them to be of similar quality!
UL, CSA, etc. tests are done under lab conditions with new products; there is little attempt to simulate actual wear & tear, abuse, or the enormous range of conditions. Some subjects aren't even discussed, nor are there industry standards.
(For example, there is a specialised market for "high-abuse" or "vandal-resistant" fixtures, but there are neither tests nor standards).
Personally, I find the $10 "spec" grade devices to be more than is necessary; there is usually a remodel long before the device tires. At the other extreme, the $1 POS units often break during installation! So, for me, the choice is usually a "commercial" grade with screw-clamp back wiring.
I've never been a big stickler on brand names when it comes to devices. I do insist on spec, or commercial grade plugs and switches. P&S, Leviton, and Hubble all make good devices, and I wouldn't object to using any of them on any of my projects.

Unplugged,
Doc
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 02/07/03 02:18 AM
Ironically, I'm a stickler on a lot of things... but bid jobs get res grade Leviton (unless otherwise noted beforehand) and T&M jobs (residential) have to specify if they want spec.

Commercial always gets spec.

Never had a call-back on a Leviton either (The GFCI that went bad was an Eagle)... but I've only been in business three+ years.

I always replace recepts used heavily during construction with brand new ones, even the GFCIs and not just the "downstream" duplexes.

It's hard enough to compete without spending three to five times what the competition is on materials.

BTW, Leviton recommends 12 in lbs on any screw terminal not otherwise marked on their devices. That is not very much torque at all. Devices will tend to weaken and break when over-torqued.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 02-06-2003).]
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Devices, Which Ones are the Best?? - 02/07/03 02:32 AM
Joe:
Responding to your post above regarding any device problems:
Leviton "Resi" grade receptacles, had about 30 pcs delivered to an office renovation job in error. One aprentice installed a few before the foreman caught it, and he also "broke" 3 in the process. Seems like the front face separates from the body very easily, and cracks at the side screw terminals. They were all returned to supplier.

Since we use "spec/comm" (the good stuff) we don't have any horror stories.

From all the posts in this thread, it appears that the majority of us "sparkies" like "good" stuff! (Spec/Comm grade etc)

John
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