Mighta dreamed it, or read it somewhere else, or was told by somebody here...

Anyway... Can't find it in the NEC (doesn't mean it ain't in there though)

The scenario: (cut to the chase already!)

A GC has the basement ready and is laying trussed floor. The MDP will be in the basement, Meterbase directly behind and 4'+ above grade. Most AHJs consider this a back-to-back, so I hope the new inspector agrees.

I digress...

They want the service powered up ASAP, to eliminate the generator use, but won't have the dwelling dried in for another few weeks IF the weather is good (don't count on it this year).

I thought I read somewhere, that there was an exception for equipment regarding 3R rating when the wet location is a temporary deal, but the service and MDP are in the permanent location.

In other words, no need to put a 3R in the basement of a house just because it ain't dried in yet.

My new AHJ (first time calling him) wants me to build a temporary box around it complete with a hinged door, with reasonable weather-proofing, and he'd be OK with it.

What is accepted in your area in this case?

What options might I have?

Does said exception exist at all?

Thanks!

-Virgil



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 01-13-2003).]

I believe Article 312.2(A) is what you are looking for. I seem to remember that the handbook mentions something about using plastic wrapped around a panelboard would meet this code article, since it is temporary, and a damp location, not wet.

I will try to find the aticle in the handbook Wednesday.

Rick Miell

Sparky66wv,

I agree that if you can "weatherproof" the MDP in the basement temporarily until the building is sealed in, Then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Would the service be "safed" off though? If the building isn't weather tight, maybe someone can get inside of the building and fool around with the service equip. You would want to make sure that it is safed off.

Harold, I mean no offense, but... Safed off?

Heh...

We leave our keys in the ignition around here in case someone needs to move our vehicle. Our houses don't even have locks.

I could add a hasp and lock to the wooden cover and the panel cover would, of course, be installed.

I've never seen any MDP locked around here.

When a local supplier was moving to a new building, the goods were scattered between the two locales. Often you'd be told just to "Pick it up at the old place, and tell us later what you got" when an item wasn't at hand in the new store.

Culture shock?

The real concern I guess is weather damage and corrosion.

I do appreciate the input and perspective of others as always!

-Virgil

sparky66wv

Where do you live and what century is it there

Just kidding I would like to live there,
it sounds great.

Some of the service calls I go on I take a Helper to sit in the truck to watch the tools (this is true)

Bob

sparky66wv,
Sounds like a nice place to live
I don't see any reason why you would need 3R if you can keep it relatively dry with a temporary shelter of some sorts

iwire,
I know what your talking about.I did a job in Houston that the plumbers actually tied a German Shepard to their truck to keep the thieves at bay

On the flip side,I have a deer lease 150 miles north of Houston where we don't ever lock the cabin on and we also leave our 4 wheelers parked there.

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 01-14-2003).]

A few months ago I "caught" two burglars red handed. When I yelled at them, one of the guys just shouted "f**k off" and they went on. (I wasn't in a position to do anything about it.)

Would 110.11 and 110.12(C) cover your question?

About 10 years ago a friend of mine got divorced. Left his 3 bed rm home to his X and 3 kids. Moved to Lawrence, Ma. Rented a 1 bed rm on a main drag. One morning he woke up to the sound of a car alarm. Looked down from the 2nd floor to see his van slider open. They cleaned him out. He didn't know when in the night they got in and couldn't understand why the police didn't notice being a main street.

Wirenutt, Mistake #1: Moving to Lawrence!

Wirenuttt,
was it Lawrence or Lynn where you had the riots? those 'L' cities, all the same to me...

iwire,
same time warp as here i think.

Virgil,
i keep a 2-circuit 3R can for such occasion as they always want to pack up the gennys the moment the dust clears from the poco trucks.

an offset nip > Milbank's lugs are #8 min>

>two w/p single boxes w/GFI's

>make in where the main seu will replace it.


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 01-14-2003).]

Virgil,

When I meant to "safe" (safed?) off, I meant it in an "OSHA" kind of a way. Here in NJ we are on a big job (7 story building) with lots of other trades running around. So if someone trips a breaker, the panel board is suppose to be locked and only "qualified" personnel is allowed to turn it back on. I have seen jobs where a lot of people were working and someone needed power, so they just turn on circuit breakers. They never gave it a second thought that there were open wires around and someone ( like me) almost touched it.

Harold

By the way, I have seen here where a building was empty for 2-3 years. When the owners finnaly decided to reopen the building it seemed that ALL of the copper ( thousands of pounds) was removed and sold off. Nobody "saw" anything. The building was stripped clean of all copper pipes, wire, busbars, etc.. As for my self, I was working in a "city" right next to a crack den. I had to bring my big old dog along fr the ride and to sit in the truck. If anyone broke into the truck, they would have been licked to death! That'll fix 'em!

Harold

In Philadelphia, they would send an extra police car along to guard the police wagon/cars responding to calls in some of the projects, in the days of the high-rises.

Also, sometimes vandals would scrape off the "PO" on the back of a wagon so there would be a nice big "LICE" left over...

This post seems to have gone over to 'what's your horror story"?? I was inspecting long range radio alarm relay sites in NYC awhile back. The company rep advised against going to one site on the top of an apartment bldg...the ConEd man had been raped in the stairwell the week before...and neither of us had a weapon.

To the ORIGINAL question, it sounds like the inspector is treating this as a temporary construction service. Are you sure he understood the situation?

Virgil,

The "Plastic Wrap" idea you mentioned sounds familliar to me also. I have needed to do this in a pinch - such as on a Remodel which has a large section of Roofing opened temporarilly, then along comes the rain!!!


I am almost 100% sure about reading something - somewhere in the NEC regarding this.
I'll check into it today.

P.S. Glad there are some areas left in No. America where theft is uncommon!
I have worked in many tough areas (So. Central LA, Watts, Beverly Hills,... oops, they are tough about Style), but really had no trouble in these areas.

Lessons learned about Bank robberies while I was involved in the Security Systems Design Surveys are very much opposite to common thinking!
Branches in the tougher areas are less frequently hit, and are least likely to experience a "Take-Over" situation.

Scott s.e.t.

The AHJ on a residential job last year asked us to put plastic under the panel cover (dead-front) and over the installed breakers. Just cut the plastic around the active breakers and the others were "inaccessible". The owner was GC on this though, and there were not a lot of people needing access to the panel.

I have put plastic over panels in the past for water proofing, and it has been acceptable to the AHJ for temp use.

On another note, last summer the plumbers on a small commercial job had an air compressor lifted from their truck. It was parked directly outside the open door to the space they were working in, within sight of the entire job site, on the back side of the building with little or no traffic. Denver, CO. I gotta get out of the big city!

thinkgood.(quote.)In Philadelphia, they would send an extra police car along to guard the police wagon/cars responding to calls in some of the projects, in the days of the high-rises.

now thats funny. i live in phila.and your right too....

Sparky;
Lawrence had riots for years. I t was gangs of portaricans against the french. Back in 85 it got so bad cars were being torched and people were all over the streets. I understand that went on in the 80s and 70s. Haven't heard anything for years about rioting anymore.

Virgil, Why don't you build yourself a T-pole and install get it inspected and have your power co. throw a meter in it? Then use the meter for the house when it is ready.
Down here we cover the panel with visquine (?). Secure above the panel and put a 2x4 at the bottom for a weight. Making sure the plastic is a foot on each side and it hangs past the panel and Putting "Danger High Voltage" stickers on the panel. It is code but cannot think where it is at. Inspected and pasted every time.

Good Luck,
Tom