I appreciate your view on the usage of extension cords.

You quoted the NFPA. In that quote UL certification is disparaged. There are few finer groups than UL. Perhaps the NFPA should blame the testing standards rather than the testers.

Please note that:

The NFPA comments are not part of the NEC.

The NEC stops at the outlet.

The NEC and NFPA have no authority over what is plugged into an outlet. In particular, the number of extension cords between the outlet and the appliance is a matter of the users purpose not an electrictians.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-28-2002).]

Don't we have code minimums for example of the number of recptacles, locations of required recptacles) so the need for the use of extension cords is limited? Lets face it many electrical hazards occur do to the misuse of extension cords.

The key word in Spyders comments is "mis-use"

I agree with Spyder wholeheartedly that there are many electrical hazards caused by mis-use of a lot of things....

How about the 30 amp plug fuses, "cause they last longer"
How about the piece of copper pipe "cause the damn fuses keep blowing"
How about the "bigger circuit breaker, cause the one marked 15 shuts off by itself"
How about the zip cord hard wired to a device box, from an existing box????
And it goes on and on!!!!

Please read my comments in Joe's extension cord thread also.

Oh NO, that thread is closed and locked....someone must have made someone mad or angry....

Guys if it was my post, please let me know.

John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 12-26-2002).]

The thread was closed because of my error when I moved it from the violations area to the NEC area.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-28-2002).]

If extention cord 'abuse' is an issue, why are manufacturers continued to be allowed to produce those of minimal design?

Would it not be prudent to lessen the potential hazard & allow minimal #14 3-wire cords only?

Sparky:
Damn, now that's a real good idea!
Only problem is who and how do you have to convince.

I recently came upon a few brown 12' flat, 2 wire, "zip" cord type, with molded caps, that are probably 20 guage. A 180 watt load, (2-90 watt "A" bulbs in a table lamp" had the cord "quite warm" to the touch.
Suggested that the homeowner remove them while I was there, as I don't have the authority to "make the removal". He had a "new one, still in the package, made in CHINA, max. 10 amps, and what appears to be a "UL" logo, but alas, no "listing number.
BTW, they were bought at the $1 store.
John

http://www.electrical-safety.com/

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-30-2002).]

I tend to agree that items that are plugged in are outside the scope of the NEC, and in my opinion most of Article 422 is outside the scope of the code. This is based on 90.2(A). This section says the NEC covers the "the installation of electric conductors, electric equipment, signaling and communications conductors and equipment, ...". It is my contention that equipment that is plugged in is not installed and therefore outside the scope of the NEC. I believe that there are other NFPA codes that do apply to cords and equipment, but these are not adopted by anywhere near as many jurisdictions as the NEC is.
Don

http://www.electrical-safety.com/

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-30-2002).]

https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Guestbook.htm



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-30-2002).]

Hotline:

Re. the light duty 20-gauge extension cords you saw:

I remember in the 1980s (probably dating from the 1970s) seeing bunches of 18-gague extension cords - some as long as 20 feet.

In fact, a couple of years ago I got rid of a bunch of these (either cutting them up and using them as replacement cord for lamps and radios) or just trashing them.

These were unpolarized and without that little blocking tab that doesn't allow you to connect a grounding plug into them.

I haven't seen them being sold at supermarkets, dollar stores and such places in years. The smallest size extension cords I see are 16-awg/SPT-2 polarized cords.

However recently I stumbled across a self-service store (that must be in businees since the 50s or something) with like THREE bins full of these 18-gauge things, still new in the sleeves!!

I may get one....just as a souvenir...or a cheap supply of zip cord for rewiring table lamps (the insulation seemed to be still flexible).

Now what do you guys think of those 25-foot 16-AWG "medium duty" (haha) orange grounded extension cords? You know the ones geared towards contractors, outside work, power tools, etc.?

That's a real doozy...some people hook up AIR CONDITIONERS, washing machines and refrigerators into these 16-AWG orange suckers instead of using the 14-gague ones designed for that purpose!

Joe,
You can cite all of the code sections that you want to, but in my opinion, the scope over rules them all. If it is not in the scope, it is not a valid code rule.
Don

Don:

You are full of surprises! I'll try to set the seed and may be able to have it grow into a CMP Proposal when I sit in at the meetings next month. This change would settle our questions, you agree?

I am sure OSHA must have some data that validates the hazards due to the misuse of extension cords.

Here's what the CPSC says. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/16.html



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-28-2002).]

Joe,
I agree that a change in the scope would make the code apply to those sections in question. I believe that under the NFPA rules it is too late to make any proposal for a change to the 2005 code. I'm not sure that these types of rules belong in the NEC which is geared to installation of the electrical system. If the code scope was expanded to cover the "use" of electrical equipment, I think that you would have to add hundreds of pages of code rules to cover the uses permitted and not permitted for all types of electrical equipment. I'm not sure that is the direction that the NEC should go in. These types of rules should be left up to the other fire codes. Also enforcement of any such "usage" rules would be very difficult as the AHJ for the NEC really doesn't have access to the buildings after the construction is complete and the project has been approved.
Don

Where I am from restaurants are subject to annual inspections for health, building and fire. Every year a few do not pass because they have extension cords running everywhere. They call us and we run the necessary circuits and set the proper devices. One was so bad they had cords passing through partitions and through ceilings.

If an establishment or dwelling is wired properly, the "need" to use extension cords is greatly reduced.

true spyder, but usages change.

personally, i see an issue in faulting our trade for that.

in the bigger pix, people will always be ignorant of certain safety issues.....

so any 'fix' becomes inclusive of more than just us.

writting another code to be ignored is not the answer here, sorry.

I e-mailed a couple of pictures of a device made to multiply the number of tools or cords you can plug in to an extension cord on construction jobs about a week ago to be posted on the Photos Submitted for Discussion section but I haven't seen them up yet. These devices, made by Yellow Jacket, have turned up everywhere in my area lately. They are selling like hotcakes and every job I've been on lately has at least 3 or 4 in use. You can power up to 5 additional cords off of one with these. If the pictures are ever posted you will see what I'm talking about. One picture is of the UL listing and instructions for use. I posted the pics seeking opinions from others on their use. Some of these jobs I've seen them on will be using them for months and months bringing up the "temporary" definition.

How would it be possible to enforce such a code/ordinance in a private residence?

hehe..... 56',
how about this guy??

Sparky,

Your reservations about additional verbiage is dead on. The mechanistic solution described in Joe's lllooonnnggg post, towit:
The appropriately sized integral fuse might be extended to all gauges of extension cords.

Al

Last week got a call to check out a breaker that wouldn't re-set. Resident said nothing new on the circuit. Sure enough, it wouldn't re-set, so I traced it out. On the 15A circuit: washer; computer with monitor, printer, scanner, etc; big screen tv; gamer box; end table lights (you know the kind that are rated at 75 W and the resident puts in 150's); X-mas tree lights; exterior X-mas lights; and a 1500 watt space heater in the garage connected via a $1.50 zip style extension cord (the space heater was trying to heat a 2 car garage that was un sheetrocked, un insulated and open to the soffit vents). These folks don't get the Darwin Award, but they're sure practicing hard for one.

Al,
i once possessed a fused x-cord, and marveled over it, thinking i had a novelty item......

something to consider as i drive down roads here with home after home decorated to the season..

methinks the CPSC's disclaimers and cautions, although valid, will not be displayed on dollar store zip cords in my lifetime....thus it is product deception via omission !**

yet additional verbiage could , in regards to the NEC, incorporate fused devicing , i'm sure you are aware we would not be re-inventing the wheel....


edited to add **
bobp's simutaineous post makes my point for me


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 12-28-2002).]

Joe,

You know me and I appreciate all your help with helping me years ago with my inspectors lic. I agree with you in theory and I know that all you want is the safety of people everwhere. I can see where "You are biting your tounge" with your symbols on the BB board. My thought is that can we help what people will do after we inspect things? Even is the NEC proposise, GFCI's, AFCI's no extension cords, no receptacles near tubs, pools etc. Do you think that the people of this country will follow our safety issues? People in general are stupid. The first thing we do is to blame some one else. ( GEE, I am sorry your honor. I didn't think that putting a radio on my bath tub might electrocute my wife! ) The biggest problem right now with our country is LAWYERS. I don't even have to go there. I know how much this board loves these people. I carry your rules for inspections around with me when ever I go out on inspections, but I can't always worry about a "WHAT IF" scenario. If some stupid person decides to use an extension cord to wire up his TV while he is flotting on a tub in his pool, then maybe he deserves what is coming to him. (P.S. I still respect you and your opinions Joe.)

Harold AKA Caper

Harold,

You mean it's not my fault if I eat Big Macs and fries with malts 4 times a day and get fat?

Geez... what a concept, personal responsibility! How would the scu... ooops...lawyers survive.

Bob

Harold:

Amen! Thanks for the kind words!



Here's an example of cord mis-use, reverse polarity?, and no equipment grounding!

I found this at one of my seminars where the extension cord they provided was the two-wire type.

PS: Let's not forget the classic cord here!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-30-2002).]

the voice of reason Harold....

it just needs to somehow get around a little more.....

Joe,

That floating bottle receptacle is priceless. I can't believe that no one was hurt with that thing.

The fused extension cord is an interesting concept. As most of you know, the standard plug here in the U.K. contains a cartridge fuse, so any extension cord fitted with this plug automatically has fuse protection at a maximum of 13A.

It's still not foolproof though. Some smaller-gauge extensions will come with instructions that a fuse no greater than 5A must be used, but people will still fit a 13A fuse and then wonder why a 3kW load starts burning up the cord.

Code requirements to insure an ample quantity of suitably placed receptacles etc. certainly go some way to reducing misuse of extension cords, but I think that ultimately it has to come down to educating users in their correct use.

And whatever the NEC or some other NFPA rules or their equivalent in other countries say, most people aren't even aware of the existence of such rules, certainly couldn't care less about abiding by them, and will just plug in whatever they have to hand.

How to get the message across is another matter.

http://www.ul.com/seasonal/spring/cords.html
http://www.ul.com/seasonal/spring/esp_cords.html
http://www.ul.com/media/newsrel/nr031402.html
http://www.ul.com/consumers/cords.html
http://www.ul.com/media/newsrel/nr_spr02_cords.html

That's a new one on me Joe .......

Sparky,

I think that cord pictured is intended to control Christmas tree lights. At least that's the recommended use I've seen in one manufacturer's catalog (Gem Electric).

You plug all of your lights into the cord and then use the foot-switch to turn the thing on and off....instead of plugging and unplugging the cord.

I was told about those Christmas-light-switching-cords by an office receptionist. I'd come for a power outage call in her area.
She had a PC, Laser Printer, and a little heater plugged into a plug strip, which was plugged into a 3wirex2wire adapter,which was plugged into a 10' Malaysian 2 wire #18 extension cord run around the cubicle (secured to the cubicle fabric with push pins) and plugged into the wall.
Surprisingly enough, the cord went bad!!
This all despite the fact that her cubicle had 2 dedicated circuits (one IG, and one dirty power).
She said the office manager told her she shouldn't use the recps. in the cubicle. (I went "gunning" for him).
We could put in receptacles every 2' around the entire world, but until the public gets a clue and an education, we're gonna find stinkin' extension cords.

Now, wouldn't one of those Christmas light switches work great on that big table saw in my garage?