Regarding not putting kitchen lights and outlets on the same circuits, does that apply only to the countertop GFCI outlets, or also to general purpose convienence outlets on walls away from countertops and anything wet?

Not sure if I understand your post correctly. But any recep in the kitchen/dining are must be gfci protected. As for the lighting run a seperate circuit for it. As I am sure you will agree most clients/customers want there kitchens bright. Its better practice to run a seperate circuit just for that...


[This message has been edited by JMichael (edited 06-10-2002).]

210.52(B)(1-3)

The only thing you can have with the small appliance circuits is a clock and the timer, light, and igniter for a gas-fired stoves, ranges, cooktops, and ovens.

220.16(A) does not give permission to put the kitchen lights on the small appliance circuits, but merely to include the small appliance circuits in the demand load factors.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 06-10-2002).]

JMichae,
Not true, GFCI protection is only required for the receptacles that serve the countertop.
Don

I gotta read the NEC one of these days.. I am so used to the AHJ setting the standards.. In the Hamptons (Long Island, New York) The dining room also needs to be 20 amp GFCI protected. It can come off of the kitchen receps. But the dining room needs 2-20 amp gfci protected circuits. This is mainly due to the use of hot plates in the dining area's.

James

Yep, 210.8(A)(6).

(Uh, I didn't realize that either..)

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 06-10-2002).]

I believe that the code requires: a minimum of 2 recept circuits for the kitchen (and related areas) and a minimum of 2 recept circuits for the kitchen counter.

A total of 2 recept cicruits can serve both of these requirements.

If a third circuit is present and does not serve the counter top area, it may serve light fixtures also.

Like others have said, it is perhaps not the best of practice to have lights on the kitchen area circuits in any case.

Gerorge,

I don't think so. Look at 210.52(B)(1). This section requires that all receptacles in the kitchen and related areas that are required to be installed by 210.52(A) or (C) be on the 2 or more small applinace branch circuits.
Don(resqcapt19)

210.52.B is very clear in that any receptacle in the kitchen or dining room ( in either (A)general or (C) counters)MUST be on a small appliance branch circuit there must be at least 2 of these but may be many more.
Also they shall have NO other outlets except clock or for a gas kitchen appliance.
I feel that it is very clear that lighting may NOT be on any branch circuit with receptacles in any kitchen,pantry,breakfast room,dining room or similar area of a dwelling unit.

tom

I have been taught, and it has always been my understanding that section 210.52b(1), only requires a total of two small appliance branch circuits for the entire kitchen/dining/etc. area combined. Not that it would be wise to only provide two for the entire area in most cases, but nevertheless still compliant.

Section 210.52b(2) makes it clear that these two or "more" small appliance branch circuits shall have no other outlets (with two exceptions). The way I see it, the word "more" in this sentence makes it clear that "all" receptacle circuits in these areas have no other outlets.

Matt

What if? There were two seperate circuits for say, 4 receptacles in the kitchen for the counter top. Now say, one of the circuits goes over to a receptacle in the dining room. Would that be OK?

Harold

fine, 210.52(B)(1)
Kitchens,Pantry,Breakfast room,Dining room, or similar area


so...this would have to include my workvan right??...

hey, maybe this guy knows....?

I am not an electrictian, but I do have a coppy of the 1999 ICC 1&2 family dwelling code.

Section 4401.5.6:

"Other receptical outlets provided in the rooms and areas specified shall be provided by the small appliance branch circuits or other branch circuits."

I suspect that is taken directly from the NEC. If so, then the "other branch circuits" can have lights on them.

George,
That is not what the NEC says. The NEC requires all of the receptacle outlets in these rooms to be on the 2 or more small applinace branch ciruits.
Don

ICC one and two family 4401.4 states that the two or more small appliance circuits SHALL serve ALL receptacles in thees areas and have no other outlets I believe that this is very clear.
tom

Certainly 4401.4 is clear in not allowing other branch circuits. Thus, there are no "other branch circuits" for 4401.5.6 to consider.

Et All:
It has always been my unnerstanding that the small appliance circuits are to be unto themselves with no other outlets before them.
I have always put the kitchen lights on the general lighting circuit and dont have these problems, leastwise so say our local inspectors.
That is a separate circuit for the kitchen lighting, problem solved.
Just my opinion, and it works for me.

-Mark-

I have another question, How about the hood? Can that go on the kitchen circuit?

Harold

The hood can go on the kitchen lighting circuit but not one of the small appliance receptacle circuits. The blowers in hoods seem to be getting bigger these days and many of them have heat lamps so often is desirable to run a dedicated circuit just for the hood.