Is there anything in the NEC to prevent the installation of a washing machine in a bathroom?

I'm assuming that the room is big enough to get a suitable distance from the tub, and I also assume that under the current NEC the recept. would have to be GFI protected.

Many apartments have Washer-Dryer combinations in the bathroom. Usually in a nook behind a bi-fold door, though.

Thanks. The reason I asked is that it seems to be quite common on the Continent, particularly in Spain, but not here in England.

There's nothing against it here in the IEE Regs., so long as the 6' spacing from the tub can be achieved. It would also have to be hard-wired. I've never seen it done here though.

Electrically,
here it would be a 'dedicated receptacle' and therefore not GFI. I'm not sure how the spacing, as being next to a basin and/or bath, would affect this.

Practically,
I had one customer, washer in bath, who's agitator was one of those that when up and down, instead of the more common side to side. Given a wet floor, the unit hopped it's way into blocking the door, while yanking it's discharge hose from the standpipe....quite the flood!

Sparky,
There is no "dedicated receptacle" exception in 210-8(a)(1).
Don(resqcapt19)

hmm, no there isn't, your right.

and we can't just say 210.11(c)(3)EX either , due to 210.11(C)(2) ?!

Looks like a 20A dedicated GFI in a bathrooom ......

Sparky,

Kind of a complicated way to go about washing the bathroom floor if you ask me.....

Why a 20A GFI circuit? With no heating element in U.S. machines, surely a 15A would be sufficient?

Paul,
NEC stipulates a 20A laundry circuit, and if it's in the bath, the 'dedicated' thing we can let fly elsewhere does not here, so GFI it is, and IF it were the sole receptacle on said circuit, it would need to be 20A

Fair enough. If it's a 20A circuit with one outlet then a 20A recept. makes sense, and if the NEC says 20A laundry circuit then 20A it is. But I wonder why they specify a cct. that will take up to 2400W for a load that at most will be much less than that, even if you take the 120% rule into account.

Actually, does the NEC consider a washer a continuous load for cct. rating?

Paul,

A Laundry area might also have an Iron being used there that might better justify the 20A circuit.

Bill

Ah, I hadn't thought of that.

I was thinking along the lines of a single dedicated recept. for the washer, but if it's an easily accessible duplex it makes sense.

Either way it's better than the 90% of washers with 3kW heaters in them here on a general purpose ring.

Paul,

Here's a quote; ('99 NEC)

They seem to allow for more than one receptacle in that area on the 20A circuit if desired.

Bill

Paul,

Up here, the most common laundry configuration is a separate washer and a gas fired clothes dryer side by side. Propane or natural gas, just a 120 volt motor to spin the drum. A 20 amp circuit and a duplex receptacle and that completes the electrical part of the total laundry installation.

Al

Bill,

With washers (and to only a slightly lesser degree dryers) now almost universal in British homes, I'd like to see our regs. changed to specify a separate circuit or each. I can't thimk why it wasn't specified years ago.
*

Al,
Gas dryers are becoming available here, but they're still rare, even in homes where heating, water, and cooking are all gas.
*

P.S. I'll post some notes on our usage of washers, dryers, and dishwashers in the Non-U.S. section.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-16-2001).]

Bill:

Yes the term "outlets" will allow them to be in that area for use with an ironing board, etc.

Joe

Or to as many 'laundry rooms' as wished.

Some notes from a British perspective now posted in non-U.S. area, as promised.

Paul, My GUESS is that, since the IEE prohibits portable appliances in bathrooms, it wouldn't be feasible to install washers and dryers..just too inconvenient without using cord and plug attachments. Also, there is the need to bond conductive surfaces and the 0.4 sec. fault clearing time--which might not be workable with fixed laundry appliance circuits?

Yes, there'd be a need for extra cross-bonding and the 0.4 sec. disconnect requirement might necessitate the use of an RCD (GFI), but there's nothing in the IEE Regs. to specifically prohibit the installation of a washer or dryer.

The only prctical restriction I can see here is that some bathrooms are just physically too small to achieve the required 2m (6' 6") separation from the tub.

True enough, Paul..nothing in the IEE. I'm still stuck on the issue of cord and plug attachment. Have you looked into the idea that there might be a UK manufacturing stipulation that washers and dryers have to be attached 'cord and plug'. If so, then there would be a solid reason for the lack of laundry appliances in bathrooms. I'm from the States and I don't know what publications you have to deal with over there..I only have the '81 edition of IEE (from a trip to the UK 10 yrs ago).

1981 would be the 15th edition of the "regs." We're now on the 16th edition, but off the top of my head I can't think of any major changes that would affect this particular issue.

Although new washers now always come ready fitted with cord and a standard 13A plug, it's quite permissible to cut off the plug and hard-wire it. The wall outlet would normally have a double-pole switch so that the unit can be isolated easily.

As the regs. prohibit the installation of any "socket outlet" (i.e. receptacle) in a bathroom, except xfmr-isolated shaver types, a washer would have to be hard-wired. And although domestic dryers over 3kW are rare, the 4kW types have to be hard-wired even when fitted in a kitchen or utility room, as the loading exceeds 13A.

I think the space factor is probably the most restricting thing: Even without electrical considerations, most bathrooms here are just too small to fit a washer in. There's possibly a cultural thing as well -- "We've never done it that way before" kind of thing.

By the way, whatever the IEE would have you believe, it isn't actually mandatory to follow the regs. on domestic wiring. They're generally accepted and followed as good practice, but there's no legal obligation. Commercial is a different matter, as is Scotland.

Which part(s) of the U.K. did you visit? Quite a bit different to the States, isn't it?

I'll say it is different! We visited the southern half..'tho we did make it up to York. I tried to get a handle on how you all wired your residential buildings..looking over things at each B&B, but it made no sense 'til I stopped in at a hardware store and the clerk gave me a quick overview of how things are wired. I topped it off by buying some books at a used book store in London and visiting a chain store in Oxford that dealt with building supplies. I couldn't get over the tiny outlet boxes with the terminal strips for connecting the wires..not much room to spare. How can you possibly do any changes to the wiring?
As for cutting off the plug and hard wiring the appliances, I think that it would present a bit of a problem for the home owner to get behind the dryer to check on any accumulation of lint..fire hazard you know. There would also be an increased chance of abusing the hardwiring. We have to make things idiot-proof here! Is idiocy just a Yankee trait?

Yep, the congested boxes is one thing I find annoying, because so many installers use the shallowest box they can get away with. Ham-fisted DIYers often jam wires into the device and then practically hammer it back to the wall to tighten the fixing screws. The result is a lot of mangled and chewed wires, and ground faults if it's a metal box.

When fixed appliances are hard-wired it's usual to leave just enough slack to allow for movement and cleaning. Electric ranges are always hard-wired, for example, so there needs to be enough spare cable to allow the free-standing types to be moved away from the wall.

I can assure you that we have our fair share of electrical idiocy here as well! I've seen some awful lash-ups and bodges.

You're one up on me because I've never been to the city of York! The National Railway Museum there is supposed to be very interesting.