2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/11/01 05:42 PM
does 2002 code regarding 15 or 20amp rec. supplying pool motors gfi protected have a distance or is it all reguardless of the dist. (RES)
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/11/01 06:56 PM
680.22(5)GFCI PRotection
Receptacles that supply pool pump motors and that are rated for 15 and 20 amperes, 120 volt - 240 volts, single phase, shall be provided with GFCI protection.
Receptacles that supply pool pump motors and that are rated for 15 and 20 amperes, 120 volt - 240 volts, single phase, shall be provided with GFCI protection.
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/11/01 07:22 PM
Eddie,
Welcome to the Forum!
That is a good question. I can see why you are questioning it. I don't have a definitive answer, but it looks to me like they mean all Pool Pump receptacles. (Just my opinion)
(portion of the following just highlighted for clarity)
680.22(5)GFCI Protection
All 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20ft) of the inside walls of a pool or fountain shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Receptacles that supply pool pump motors and that are rated 15 or 20 amperes, 120 volt through 240 volts, single-phase, shall be provided with GFCI protection.What I'm thinking is that if they just meant within the 20' area it would've been specified "within this area" or similar language. Also, since it is under the Heading GFCI Protection I would expect that each sentence would relate directly to that. I think that they should've put it in a list-type format so it would be clearer to all.
As a side note, I notice that receptacles are specified. Does this mean that they can be hardwired and not need the GFCI protection? I can see people opting for that over 2 pole GFCI breakers on 240v pumps. That could cause other problems.
Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-11-2001).]
Welcome to the Forum!
That is a good question. I can see why you are questioning it. I don't have a definitive answer, but it looks to me like they mean all Pool Pump receptacles. (Just my opinion)
(portion of the following just highlighted for clarity)
Quote
680.22(5)GFCI Protection
All 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20ft) of the inside walls of a pool or fountain shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Receptacles that supply pool pump motors and that are rated 15 or 20 amperes, 120 volt through 240 volts, single-phase, shall be provided with GFCI protection.
As a side note, I notice that receptacles are specified. Does this mean that they can be hardwired and not need the GFCI protection? I can see people opting for that over 2 pole GFCI breakers on 240v pumps. That could cause other problems.
Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-11-2001).]
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/11/01 07:36 PM
Bill,
that's very sharp of you.
It would seem every 02' passage would apply to 'receptacle', leaving a direct wired unit compliant if directly wired non-GFI.
note the 99' 680-6(d)
'Motors in other than Dwelling Units'
mentions 'direct connection'
I cannot ( maybe it's there?) find this in the 02' , so i would surmise that it has been done away with....![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/frown.gif)
that's very sharp of you.
It would seem every 02' passage would apply to 'receptacle', leaving a direct wired unit compliant if directly wired non-GFI.
note the 99' 680-6(d)
'Motors in other than Dwelling Units'
mentions 'direct connection'
I cannot ( maybe it's there?) find this in the 02' , so i would surmise that it has been done away with....
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/11/01 07:45 PM
Sparky,
Aw, you're going to make me Blush!![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/redface.gif)
I have hard-wired pumps several times for the purpose of trying to ensure that the main pump was on when the Booster or Polaris turned on. But it isn't a good situation for people that take their pumps inside over the winter, because the disconnecting and reconnecting is often done by unqualified persons and each time they get hooked back up again things get a little worse.
Bill
Aw, you're going to make me Blush!
I have hard-wired pumps several times for the purpose of trying to ensure that the main pump was on when the Booster or Polaris turned on. But it isn't a good situation for people that take their pumps inside over the winter, because the disconnecting and reconnecting is often done by unqualified persons and each time they get hooked back up again things get a little worse.
Bill
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/12/01 11:32 PM
Iam mainly looking for the interpation of what most people read,if the distance in the first paragraph pertains to the second or all 20-30amp outlets to be gfi regardless how far away the are?
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/13/01 04:29 AM
Eddie,
I read it as now having to provide GFCI protection on these pump outlets at any distance.
Bill
I read it as now having to provide GFCI protection on these pump outlets at any distance.
Bill
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/13/01 11:24 AM
me to bill there was some controversy at a few meeting i been to just want to see if others read it the way I did
Re: 2002 680.22(A)(5) - 11/14/01 08:46 AM
Eddie,
It appears that the '99 680-6(d) which required GFCI protection for similar motors (regardless of distance) in 'other than Dwelling Units' was modified slightly and moved to 680.22(A)(5) it now applies to all occupancies. The following is from the Art 680 ROPs (May 2001)It is all a bit hard to follow because things were reworded and relocated and 680.22(A)(5) is a product of many different proposals, but this seems to show the intent.
Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-14-2001).]
It appears that the '99 680-6(d) which required GFCI protection for similar motors (regardless of distance) in 'other than Dwelling Units' was modified slightly and moved to 680.22(A)(5) it now applies to all occupancies. The following is from the Art 680 ROPs (May 2001)It is all a bit hard to follow because things were reworded and relocated and 680.22(A)(5) is a product of many different proposals, but this seems to show the intent.
Quote
20- 47 - (680-6(d)): Accept in Principle
SUBMITTER: Joel A. Rencsok, Scottsdale, AZ
RECOMMENDATION: Delete this section from 680-6 .
(d) Motors in Other than Dwelling Units. Wiring supplying pool pump motors rated 15 and 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
SUBSTANTIATION: This Section does not belong here.
See 680-6 Title.
Motors are not included here.
Also does not require GFCI’s on motors installed for pools located for dwelling units. Why
It does not seem that motor installations around dwelling units are more safe.
Other than dwelling units imply that pools are more unsafe in this environment. Untrue statement.
A pool is a pool wherever it is located.
All rules must apply to all pool installations unless this code panel distinguishes the differences.
PANEL ACTION: Accept in Principle.
See Proposal 20-30a.
PANEL STATEMENT: The proposal here is to delete 680-6(d), but the editorial rewrite in Proposal CP2001 deletes the section, but incorporates the concept.
NUMBER OF PANEL MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 11
VOTE ON PANEL ACTION:
AFFIRMATIVE: 10
NOT RETURNED: 1 Ryan
SUBMITTER: Joel A. Rencsok, Scottsdale, AZ
RECOMMENDATION: Delete this section from 680-6 .
(d) Motors in Other than Dwelling Units. Wiring supplying pool pump motors rated 15 and 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
SUBSTANTIATION: This Section does not belong here.
See 680-6 Title.
Motors are not included here.
Also does not require GFCI’s on motors installed for pools located for dwelling units. Why
It does not seem that motor installations around dwelling units are more safe.
Other than dwelling units imply that pools are more unsafe in this environment. Untrue statement.
A pool is a pool wherever it is located.
All rules must apply to all pool installations unless this code panel distinguishes the differences.
PANEL ACTION: Accept in Principle.
See Proposal 20-30a.
PANEL STATEMENT: The proposal here is to delete 680-6(d), but the editorial rewrite in Proposal CP2001 deletes the section, but incorporates the concept.
NUMBER OF PANEL MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 11
VOTE ON PANEL ACTION:
AFFIRMATIVE: 10
NOT RETURNED: 1 Ryan
[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-14-2001).]