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Posted By: Bill Addiss Minimum # of Circuits - 04/11/01 03:57 AM
What is the minimum # of circuits that a single family Home must have and what are they? Talking about circuits that are required by the NEC.

Bill
Posted By: Scott35 Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/11/01 05:29 AM
I seem to remember this being done somewhere before - but I'll take a shot at it! [Linked Image]

Minimum 2 small appliance circuits,
Minimum 1 Laundry circuit,
Minimum 1 Dedicated Bathroom circuit,
At least 1 Lighting circuit,
At least 1 Receptacle circuit.

So I would say - No less than 6 circuits for bare bones minimum.
I would wonder if the smoke detectors need a dedicated circuit, plus the bedroom[s] circuit would need to dedicated when the AFCIs come into effect in 2002 NEC.

Other things would be Washer / Dryers, Disposal / Dishwashers, Instahots, garage door openers, yadda - yadda - yadda - but at least the min. 6 [for a small 400 sq. ft house, maybe?? [Linked Image]].

As always - I must include this disclaimer!!
I really am unsure to Residential codes over the US, let alone what's going on locally - due to limited involvement in Residential installations. Others more involved can explain details more correctly.

Reading the above disclaimer removes all liability from me, and allows me to track your credit card usage on-line and run it up for my personal use without fear of prosecution. Also, I am allowed to sell your user profile to hundreds of Advertisers for large profits to me, and endless bombardment of junk E-Mail from Spambots to you, without possibility of any legal suits made on me.

[now that's a real dumb joke [Linked Image]...]

Scott SET
Posted By: sparky Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/11/01 10:29 AM
does lighting and receptacle need to be separate?....220-3(b)(10), i think 3 watts per sq covers all...

i guess i'm bidding against ya Scott!

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/11/01 12:15 PM
Scott,

Yes, It's been done before and I wasn't satisfied with the results. So I thought I'd bring it up again.

The outcome of that thread (according to others) was that the following were Required by code and nothing else.

OK >> Minimum 2 sm appliance cir, (Kitchen)
OK >> Minimum 1 Laundry circuit,
OK >> Minimum 1 Dedicated Bathroom circuit,

Total of 4

Comments?
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/11/01 02:53 PM
Bill,
210-52(a)(1) will require at least one more circuit as the receptacles required by this section can not be connected to any of the circuits in your list.
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: Tom Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/11/01 10:21 PM
Take a look at Appendix D, example 1 "Minimum # of branch circuits required" covers things quite well. Note that the minimum number of general purpose circuits for lighting loads (this includes most receptacles) works out to one 15 amp circuit for every 600 square feet or one 20 amp circuit for every 800 square feet.

Tom
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 02:38 AM
Tom,
An appendix is not a code rule. Where in the code does it say that we must provide those circuits?
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: sparky Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 10:56 AM
the appendix(B) does start off stating it is purley informational.
so why would it give you bad info?
[Linked Image]
given the provisions of 220-3(b)(10)
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 02:52 PM
Sparky,
The question is the minimum number of circuits and still meet the code. You don't find code rules in the appendix. The calculations in 220 tell me how to size the service, but do not tell me how many circuits I must provide. 220 also tells me how to calculate the branch circuit load but does not tell me that I must install those circuits. Should any one ever build a house and use only 5 circuits??, of course not, but I think that the code would permit it.
Don(resqcapt19)
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 06:09 PM
Well,

This is quite a different response than the last time this was discussed. My opinion was expressed exactly by Don:
Quote
210-52(a)(1) will require at least one more circuit as the receptacles required by this section can not be connected to any of the circuits in your list.
Don(resqcapt19)

I was looking for the other thread but couldn't find it. There seemed to be several people insisting that there were no requirements in the code for this. I couldn't convince them otherwise. I'm glad to see that the people here have what it takes to see past the words (or lack of them) and see the overall 'Big Picture'

In other words, It does not say anywhere in the code (I think) that a General purpose lighting circuit is required. It does say that Lighting and certain outlets are required by code, and as Don pointed out,( [Linked Image] ) these cannot go on any of the other circuits.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: rmiell Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 07:44 PM
I agree with Don and Bill, but do so using another section. 210-11 gives the requirements for branch circuits, and refers us to 220-3. 210-11(a) gives the minimum number, while 210-11(c) gives us the required specific circuits (small-appliance, laundry, bathroom). In each of these, (1), (2), & (3), the first sentence states "In addition to the number of brach circuits required by other parts of this section..."

That gets you back to the argument that you need as many general-purpose circuits as required in computing the load, based on the square footage of the house (minimum 1-15amp circuit for minimum 600sq. ft., or minimum 1-20amp circuit (or 2-15amp circuits) for minimum 800sq. ft).

area of house X 3va / 120v = General Purpose lighting amps

General purpose lighting amps / 15 or 20 amp circuit = number of circuits

Rick
Posted By: sparky Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 08:55 PM
I think we all agree this reads hard.

so , once i have my sq. ft to # of circuits, am i to understand i can install as may receptacles as i like?

of interest is how 220-3(c) reads in relation to this

[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 04-12-2001).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 10:01 PM
Sparky,

My whole point in bringing this up was that it's kind of a trick question there are really only 4 specifically required circuits, the last one takes some brainwork to get (not much, but some) and I'm glad we're all up to the task here! [Linked Image]

There's no doubt that it's needed, but some don't see it as being "required" by code.


Bill
Posted By: Tom Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/12/01 11:32 PM
Don,

I never claimed that the appendix is a requirement, I said it covered the requirements (in one handy location). Of course, the requirements being discussed appear consequtively in 210-11(c).

As far as the general lighting circuits, 210-11says they shall be provided to supply the loads computed in accordance with 220-3

Tom
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/13/01 02:52 AM
Tom,
You are correct. 210-11 does say we must install the general lighting circuits per the calculations in 220-3.
Don
Posted By: sparky Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/13/01 11:02 AM
Bill;
well it IS a trick Q! of sorts. some code loops are just that, you go in a circle,one refering to the other using double-negative undefined electro-leagal jargon worthy of Perry Mason weasling out of a DWI.

where's that asprin?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tom Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/13/01 11:42 PM
Sparky,

You can have a few of my aspirin. I buy the super giant economy size every time I get a new code book. Every time I think I know something, I usually find out I was mistaken.

I wish I was 1/2 as # as most of the guys that post on this board. ( that's half as sharp for you non-musical folks)
Posted By: sparky Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/15/01 03:45 PM
Tom;
i guess i gotta second the vote!
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Steve T Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/15/01 04:37 PM
You haven't quite covered everything... Does a single family home have to have a bathroom? Laundry? Kitchen? Lighting?

I remember as a youngster visiting a farm and they had a house but the bathroom was an outhouse. Also, I think I remember the laundry being hand washed and dried.

Is there any reference in the NEC as to which building code is used to make a determination in which of these rooms are required to consititute a single family dwelling.

And if I am reading 210-52(b) correctly, it says the two or more small appliance branch circuits(SABC) shall serve all receptacle covered by sections 210-52(a) and (c). 210-52(a) lists pretty much every occupiable room in the house--so I'm reading that the SABC's need to feed every recept in the house with the exception of a refrigeration recept.

Any thoughts?
Posted By: Tom Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/15/01 10:59 PM
Steve,

210-52(a) tells you how receptacles are to be spaced, what qualifies as a space requireing a receptacle, etc. It says nothing about which circuits these receptacles are to be connected to.

210-52(b) limits the areas that can be served by the small appliance branch circuits.

What constitutes a dwelling unit? Beats me. I guess this is up the the AHJ as to what building code they enforce, if any. If there is no AHJ, the lending institution might be the ones that determine what a dwelling is. The ones around here won't lend money on a house without indoor plumbing, or one with a service less than 100 amps.

As far as the little house out back, it probably would not meet the NEC definition of a bathroom (see definitions in article 100)

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 04-15-2001).]
Posted By: sparky Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/16/01 09:10 PM
My state does not require a GC , Electrical, Plumbing , AHJ, or any other license for single fam's.
The kaos has resulted in many bankers hiring out a hatcket man.
[Linked Image]
I haven't had to run a dedicated UF to an outhouse as yet.....but stranger things will happen when the builders are allowed off their leash!

the focus of those who are usually caught up in a code dispute is to twist it around.

210-52(b)(1) implies that the "kitchen", "pantry" "breakfast room" "dining room" "or similar area" could take advantage of the 2 SABC's

so could we, by definition, have 6 rooms fed by 2 circuits??? [Linked Image]

am i reading this wrong again??

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/16/01 10:46 PM
Sparky,

Your Outhouse doesn't qualify as a Bathroom unless it has a sink (Basin) see Art 100 Definition of Bathroom.

Bill
Posted By: Steve T Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/17/01 02:23 AM
I guess I am getting at the poor wording of 210-52(b)(1). It says;

In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by Section 210-11(c)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by Sections 210-52(a)....


210-52(a) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room...

210-52(b)(1) in my opinion can easily be interpreted to mean something that most in the field generally know is not the intent.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Minimum # of Circuits - 04/17/01 04:42 AM
Steve,

Looking at those sections I'd have to agree that they could use some work. I think that things have gotten less clear than they once were.

Bill
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