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Posted By: watersparkfalls phasing - 02/24/16 03:43 AM
OK this is pretty simple one, but I need someone to agree with me or set me straight...I was working with a buddies JW at a print shop(I help man his jobs from time to time) we were pulling wire in emt, I would ask him what colors and he would say red/black for ALL the 208 loads, but when I looked at his make up in the panel he spliced blue to some of the wires for the phasing, instead of laying out the circuits ahead of time(like anybody would do) he just pulled then spliced to keep phasing. Am I crazy or is this a violations? How is this different then taping? And yes it was #10 AWG so re-identifying isn't allowed, unless I am wrong!
Thanks in advance,
Posted By: ghost307 Re: phasing - 02/24/16 04:52 AM
With regard to your last sentence, the general rule in the NEC is that if the individual conductors are available in different colors, you need to use the colored wire.
Re-identifying is generally only allowed when there is ho way to buy wires with colored insulation (like 500 kcmil).
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: phasing - 02/24/16 08:59 PM
Sim-Pul (Southwire) has a rainbow of colors, up to 750KCMil including green.

Posted By: watersparkfalls Re: phasing - 02/25/16 12:04 AM
thanks, I know you can't re-identify #6 or smaller. Just wondering if there was a reason or exception to splicing in the panel that would see this as anything other than what is was, which is re-identifying.

Posted By: renosteinke Re: phasing - 02/25/16 01:36 AM
No doubt the guy is just playing games- he wants his work to 'look professional' while not actually bothering to BE professional.

Technically, I don't think you're actually required by the code to identify the phases at all ... the entire panel could use pink wire and still be fine. I believe the requirement to identify things by voltage and phase applies only when there are more than one power system in the building- say. 480/277 and 208/120.

Ironically, I'm currently involved in a job where the opposite situation developed; the wire crew pulled in three colors, then the service crew installed a single-phase service. There goes the color coding!

As for larger sizes, I have seen increasing numbers of contractors think they're now required to use colored wire, choose to do so for a 'clean' look to their work, or who think the inspector / customer "wants" colored wires. (I'm referring to the big stuff here, too!)

Now, while we're on the topic .... why is there pink wire, but no pink electrical tape? laugh
Posted By: gfretwell Re: phasing - 02/25/16 02:37 AM
Leave the red tape out in the sun long enough and it will be pink
Posted By: ampherder Re: phasing - 02/26/16 03:34 PM
Re-identifying is allowed except for 200.6 for grounded conductors (white), and 250.119 for equipment grounding conductors (green) 6 AWG and smaller, except in certain circumstances, such as multiconductor cable.
Posted By: ghost307 Re: phasing - 02/26/16 04:15 PM
No offense to any potential pink-lovers in the audience, but I think it would get red tagged if there was no way to tell Phase A, Phase B and Phase C apart from one another.
Posted By: ampherder Re: phasing - 02/26/16 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by renosteinke

Now, while we're on the topic .... why is there pink wire, but no pink electrical tape? laugh

Why is there so much black electricians tape but so few black electricians?
Posted By: ghost307 Re: phasing - 02/26/16 04:47 PM
Pink electrical tape (among other colors)
Posted By: gfretwell Re: phasing - 02/26/16 06:00 PM
Beyond the multiple voltage thing John mentioned and the orange on a high leg delta, it will be hard to find a violation if the phases are not identified.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: phasing - 02/26/16 09:43 PM
I once had a spec job that wanted an odd color #10 THHN stranded. It was a 'special order' 10K feet minimum.

Client (engineer) said.." cost is no issue, follow the spec, and order it"

We used less then 200' total to one electronics rack, the balance went to their warehouse.

Ironically, when they went 'belly up', they gave it back to me. It was 'pink' or 'light red' and went to other jobs.

Posted By: ghost307 Re: phasing - 02/26/16 09:49 PM
Sorry; I keep forgetting that we tend to have slightly different rules here than in the NEC.

Chicago - 210.5
208Y/120 gets marked Black, Red, Blue
240V Delta gets a Red high leg
277/480 gets marked Brown, Orange, Yellow

Posted By: gfretwell Re: phasing - 02/27/16 12:46 AM
The 208 and 408 wye is standard enough that MC manufacturers are making it up that way with the color code on the armor. I really thought that was cool the first time I saw it on a job.

It is not only informative, it is pretty wink

They also had special cables for fire and patient care area circuits.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: phasing - 02/27/16 02:30 AM
Pink tape exists? Amazing! I'll have to get some, just to annoy folks. I see an April 1st visit to the parts house coming up .....

As for color codes, it's important to know the difference between 'practice,' specification,' and 'requirement.' That was the point of my post.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: phasing - 02/28/16 02:59 AM
I suppose that after a while common practice (like black, red, blue and BOY) drives manufacturers to create products then regulation follows because manufactures drive the CMP process.
The other "standard" seems to be violet/gray for 277 circuits. It does seen to keep most people from trying to get 120v from a 277v lighting circuit ... but not always. Kaboom!
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: phasing - 03/12/16 01:48 AM
An interesting side note....

Our POCO (PSE&G) does NOT allow the "O" in 'BOY' within their meter pans or CT cabinets, or pad mount transformer secondary.

It is noted within the utility spec book.

Reasoning? Safety! 'Orange' tape or insulation in their eyes indicates 'High Leg' 'Red Leg' 'Bastard Leg' 'Wild Leg'

The 'old timers' know the difference, but the concerns are for the 'newer guys'.

I have not worked in the JCP&L territory recently, so I will have to check their site for specs unless someone here knows.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: phasing - 03/12/16 03:02 AM
I appre4ciate your thoroughness, in posting once for each phase. laugh
Posted By: gfretwell Re: phasing - 03/12/16 08:48 AM
The fact that NFPA decided orange should be the high leg on center tapped delta was unfortunate since BOY has become so much of a standard.
That was where the pink wire should have gone wink
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: phasing - 03/13/16 04:15 AM
I fess up to you, it was not thoroughness at all; I had a glitch in the internet connection. I should have checked before I shut down...

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