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Posted By: EV607797 GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/08/13 07:19 PM
Can a GFCI receptacle be used as a disconnecting means for an out building (fed by only a single circuit) using the test button? I say no, but I saw this done over the weekend at a friend's place and he swears that it was inspected. I don't believe him.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/08/13 07:32 PM
IMHO, No!
Posted By: NickD Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 02:20 AM
A GFCI CAN be used as a disconnecting means... that is what is supposed to do. This is not up for debate. Whether or not it is acceptable practice is the question.

A little more detail would be helpful, otherwise we'll be answering your question on a lot of assumptions.
There is a circuit, starting with a GFCI at the main building, which then runs to the out building?
Depending on the specific situation and the wiring in the outbuilding (the fact that it is only one circuit), I could see it being passed by an AHJ.
Posted By: sparkyinak Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 02:30 AM
GFCI's are not listed as a service disconnect thus can not be used as one
Posted By: gfretwell Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 02:52 AM
The only exception to 225.38 is that a snap switch can be used in garages and out buildings on residential properties.
Nothing about a GFCI
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 02:54 AM
Again & IMHO no it cannot be a disconnect. Yes, in theory pushing the 'test' button will open the circuit, but it is not manufactured, designed or intended as a disconnect.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 02:58 AM
Sorry 225.36
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 03:04 AM
Greg:
225.36 from 2011:
225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting
means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as
service equipment.
Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential
property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap
switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.

You are agreeing that a GFI cannot be used??
Posted By: gfretwell Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 05:02 AM
Yes. It is not a snap switch and it is not suitable as service equipment as AK sparky pointed out.
Posted By: sparkyinak Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 06:09 AM
Test buttons don't always work on them
Posted By: EV607797 Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/09/13 05:37 PM
I'm glad that we're in agreement here. I just wanted to make sure that I hadn't missed something.

The installation consisted of a piece of UF coming up out of the ground (no physical protection) and into an FS box with a GFI receptacle in it. They came out of the back to feed the receptacles and lights inside the garage. In such an instance, the only way to disconnect the power would be to trip the GFI.

I knew it didn't get inspected.
I rather like the idea. Not only does this help you meet the recommendation to regularly 'test' the GFCI, but the new (since 2001) GFCI's have an indicating light, to verify if they've been tripped.

The 2001 revision of GFCI requirements also took care of the old issue of a mis-wired GFCI not operating properly. Now a GFCI, like a disconnect, must open all the 'hot' conductors.

Unlike snap switches -which are often rated at less than circuit ampacity- a GFCI is rated for opening under load, even a motor load.

I say a GFCI meets the 'disconnect' requirement of the NEC. It does not, though, meet the LOTO requirements of OSHA.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 10/10/13 02:08 AM
The problem is GFCIs can fail "on", like when you have a bolted fault.
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 06/23/14 10:26 PM
What if the GFCI says "switch" with off/on at the test/reset buttons? (Not that I've ever thought of using a GFI for a switch, but to stir thought..)


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Posted By: HotLine1 Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 06/25/14 01:13 AM
Guess I would read the instructions first, and IF it is a 'switch' check the rating & proceed from there.

I had a guy wire the rooftop light to the 'load' side of a GFI receptacle on a rooftop. He used the 'test/reset' for the light switch. I did not approve it. No debate, he installed a switch.
Posted By: Tesla Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 06/26/14 07:46 PM
I can't see ANY inspector accepting a GFCI trip device as a safety switch.

The general public/ any servicing tech would NEVER 'make the connection.'

If you want to use a toggle switch -- with clear ON/OFF legends....

And, it would have to be suitably labled, and in a suitable location. (proximate)

&&&

EV WHY would anyone want unswitched lights?

As for firemen responding to trouble... well, at least it's a GFCI.

Except that GFCIs fail all the time....

They fail A LOT.

%%%

You're describing a hack job that is exactly why red tags are necessary.

***

Which gets back to a lot of hack thinking/ engineering.

Hacks can get something to 'work' that is so screwy that failure is sure to come.

And when it does fail, first responders are expected to be miracle electricians and dope out some crazy scheme on the hurry up.

Posted By: HotLine1 Re: GFCI receptacle used as a disconnect? - 06/27/14 02:53 AM
Tesla:

Lostashell said a GFI with 'On/Off' at the tes/reset buttons. I have not come accross an animal like that.

I have (somewhere) a GFI-SP Switch combo device. I'll look for it when I get a chance.
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