Hi,
I am looking for the requirement for bonding the copper water lines to and from a hot water heater to the main disco, and the bonding required for gas lines..I also have sprinkler lines.

250.104 (B) seems to cover some of this but I recall my inspector making me bond to both copper lines from the water heater and then a bond to the gas meter piping..

thanks

greg

I have had this discussion many times and it has been pointed out, the code does not specifically require a bond around the water heater or any other non-conductive fixture.
You can get there with the word "systems" by saying all of the pipe in the system needs to be bonded using the jumpers defined in 250.104 but you still have guys arguing the other side.

Greg,

We are having the big big fight again about bonding gas pipe or not bonding gas pipes here in NJ. The National Fuel Code (which is adopted here) states that the gas line must be bonded. I don't have the exact words nearby but, we are suppose to run a bonding conductor from the customer side of the gas line/meter to the grounding electrode of the electrical system. (The ground rods.)

I don't see much gas here. I am not sure what they are doing but I am for bonding everything metal.
I bonded my stainless counter top and the back splash.

I hear some interesting theories on bonding

The main thing is, not every groundING conductor goes without passing some current

So you bond the gas pipes, and say they land the gas bottle (think rural area) in proximity to your meter & mbj

Methinks you fellas can visualize the circuit .....

~S~

Any piece of metal connected to the electrical system, intentionally or unintentionally, will carry some current.
There is no way to stop it.

Sparky,

We had a problem with voltage getting on to gas piping several years ago in one of my towns. The gas co. was there to change out the meter and when the tech open up the gas pipe, there was a spark. The tech went nuts and blew the whistle. There were police, and fire dept. and utility people all around the area in minutes.

I think the problem was the neutral broke loose. There were no ground rods, the city water ground clamp was either bad, loose, or missing, so the ground was carrying the neutral load, right back on the gas piping system.

There is discussions around this area with bonding of CSST piping. CSST is Corrugated Stainless Steel Pipe, it is that flex yellow pipe or trac (track) pipe which is black colored. Some people think it has to be bonded at the fittings and some don't. Some also think the bond wire should parallel the CSST and some say no it doesn't.

yeah i know Greg

the poco guys tell me the closer i am to a substation, the more i can expect it too....

~S~

Oh great....

and i can just image them all pointing to me

"there he is!, git 'em "

~S~

If you want an interesting walk around the block, take your clamp and look at the current on the ground wires coming down the poles.
With permission, look at the current on your neighbor's ground electrode conductors. Compare that to what you saw on the poles.
It is clear there is a lot of unintentional current flowing around in the dirt. Wye distribution insures the dirt is a significant current path.

If you can find a wire coming down the poles that has not been stolen for the copper.

In my part of the city they are mostly missing from the ground electrode to about 6 or 7 feet up the pole. It was reported to the utility about this time last year and they still have not sent a crew out to check / fix the poles.

Harold:
Read the directive from DCA regarding the CSST bonding!

It must be bonded, per the sketch in the Communicator, & a permit is required.

Thanks for the informative comments..very insightful..my inspector made me run a ground to the load side of the gas meter and one to the copper lines to the water heater back to the main panel...jumping across both hot and cold...the code says the EGC can serve gas equipment for bonding...but that would not cover the gas system if you had an electric water heater and gas stove!

250.104 (B) is a bugger!

Thanks

Greg

John,

I have seen the directive, and I do follow the rules, however I don't have to like them. Plus once I leave the job, who knows what the EC does? I have heard of guys taking the AFCI breakers out and the plastic bubble covers get broken too.

Personally, The CSST thing is a joke IMHO. I don't like it either.

For the record, my wife hates the TR receptacles!

I totally agree. I was taught to bond the hot and cold and believe its required in the gray area of the code and here is my 2 cents worth.

Anything conductive thats connected to an electrical system had the potential of becoming energized hence it must be or grounded or bonded. The cold water side of a water heater on an all metal plumbing system. My problem with not bonding is most waters have dielectric fittings to prevent electrolysis between the copper pipes and iron tank. They are also insulates the hot side of the plumbing from the cold side. There could be a conductive connection between the hot and cold lines at faucets where they mix together but how can we be sure that's an adequate conductive path with the use of more and more plastic parts used in faucets and Teflon tape? If the hot side becomes energized some how, if there is not a sufficient pathway between the hot and cold lines, there will be potential voltage between the two and we all know what will happen if both are touched at the same time like reach under the sink of shutting off both faucets. More and more plastic parts. As electricians we have to ensure that anything that is likely to become energized must be effectively bonded.

I started to research this in greater detail years ago because of the confusion. I have PE's arguing its a must to bond and other going no way. Maybe I need to continue this research...

Sparky,

What is very bad now is that plumbers are mixing the old CU pipe with the new plastic pipe. (Pex, pipe?) So now it the houses, there are large portions of Cu pipe that isn't bonded at all. Those sections could become energized and we would never know it. Maybe the Pex should have a bonding wire in it to carry the grounding of the old Cu pipe.

Sparky brought up a point about anything metal that connects with the electrical system should be grounded. What if it didn't have anything to do with the electrical (ac)system and it was metal? Case in point is a lot of houses have a large I-beam running down the center of the house, and being EC's who hate to drill, we will run our wires down along with the metal I-beam. Should that I-beam be bonded to the ac system?

I have not heard of any requirement to bond the beam in an R3. The lally columns, set in the basement slab might constitute a ground but a visqueen sheet under the slab would insulate that. They are also painted. It would be an interesting test with a Suretest and the right adapter.

If the wire is properly protected from nails and screws, I say no. However it's a case by case thing.

An AHJ around here used to require that the steel beams be bonded IF any wiring came in contact with the steel. AFAIK, he was never challenged to provide an article, other than 'bond building steel.'

You can challenge an inspector and even win but more than likely, you still be working in his jurisdiction. ...

sparkyinak:
I understand your point. But there may still be those who use 'revenge is sweet'.

agreed. Sometimes it's worth to take the lumps

Some inspectors are anal retentive. Me, I'm practical. Just because a wire it touching the beam? No. It's insulated. If us subject to damage, then likely. It's a case by case thing.

Maybe we should bond all the gussets on the trusses as well.

Sometimes I get people who worry about "WHAT IF" syndrome. Well to that I say, well what if , they drop an airplane on this building, THEN WHAT! You can't worry about "What If". Does it met code right here,, right now? Then pass the job. If not, you better have a code section to back you up.