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Posted By: George Little Receptacle in Dining room - 03/03/13 11:33 PM
Okay, so here's my next question: Can a switched receptacle be on a small appliance branch circuit for dining room lighting?
Posted By: shortcircuit Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/04/13 12:14 AM
IMO...no. 210.52(B)(2) says no other outlets can be on the small appliance branch circuits
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/04/13 03:15 AM
Interesting question.

You need to have a luminaire, switched as your required lighting outlet to satisfy 210.70)A)(1)ex1 so who is to say that it is a lighting outlet if it was on one of two SA circuits?
210.52 tends to be contradictory. On the one hand they want 2 dedicated 20s serving the counter top, then they say you can pick up just about every other receptacle in the kitchen, dining room, pantry etc on those circuits.
The handbook does show a switched lighting outlet (receptacle) on a 15a general lighting circuit.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/04/13 02:18 PM
Greg,

When I was in business, I would run about 3 different circuits to the kitchen. On one circuit, I would pick up 2-3 recpt. in kitchen and some in dining room. On another circuit, I would pick up 2-3 recpt. in kitchen then pick up some breakfast nook recpt. The last kitchen circuit would stay in the kitchen and they would have 3-4 recpt on it. Depending on the size of the kitchen.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/04/13 03:00 PM
I have seen some scary expensive houses that only had 2 for all of the required rooms. (kitchen, dining and a nook)

They also picked up 3 baths (counters) on one 20.

I was amazed at where some builders will save a buck.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/04/13 07:04 PM
I have to agree with Shortcircuit & say 'No', IF that circuit is one of the two required.

If it is an 'additional' 20 amp circuit then I feel it would be OK.

As to the bath receptacles all being on one circuit, compliant but a terrible design, and could be a major inconvenience for the occupants.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/04/13 09:19 PM
I wonder if George's question comes down to whether a small appliance receptacle outlet can be switched? You already have the required lighting outlet.
Posted By: George Little Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/05/13 12:39 AM
I'm going to go with Greg, Short Circuit and Hot line's answers. One can not switch a receptacle on a 20a. SAC to satisfy the lighting outlet requirement mentioned in 210.70. It might be a stretch because the dining room is not mentioned in the exception but the wording in 210.52(B)(2) is pretty clear "No Other Outlets" meaning no lighting outlets. IMHO.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/06/13 02:40 PM
George:
IF someone wanted 1/2 of a DR outlet switched for convenience, as in controling whatever was plugged into the 1/2, that would be compliant. (Using a 20 amp listed switch)

What say you?? Opinions appreciated.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/06/13 02:45 PM
John,

I think I would have to pass that type of install if I saw it.
Posted By: George Little Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/07/13 05:26 AM
John, I'm sticking with you can't use the small appliance circuit to serve the lighting load.
Posted By: Tesla Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/07/13 06:17 AM
I thought the whole idea was to not leave the resident in darkness after they stuck a knife into the toaster?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/07/13 07:15 AM
The lighting load is dealt with in 210.70 and it can't be a receptacle.

There is no law against plugging a light into a small appliance circuit (like the pucks HOs put under the upper). it is just not a "lighting outlet".
Quote
Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire.


It is just a receptacle someone plugged a lamp into.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/07/13 02:38 PM
Greg:
210.70 (1) exception 1 does not mention a 'Dining Room', so a switched receptacle could be utilized, although it may be a bad design choice.

Yes, whatever a homeowner plugs into any receptacle is beyond our control.


Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/07/13 04:52 PM
Considering that 210.12 (AFCI) now includes the dining room I wonder why it is still on the SA in the first place.
Posted By: George Little Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/09/13 04:00 AM
John, I'm going to set on the code panel next Friday and I'm going to say basically that the SABC is just that. Receptacle(s) and their locations are addressed in 210.50. Lighting outlets mentioned in 210.70 are in addition to SABC mentioned in 210.50. They can beat on me if they want to but that's what I understand the code to say.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle in Dining room - 03/09/13 03:15 PM
George:
Thanks and good luck!!
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