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Posted By: renosteinke Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/09/12 05:56 PM
Yes, this parallels another thread at another forum. Just reaching out to another audience, with a different take on thimgs.

I've been surface-mounting receptacles "as needed" during my household remodel. No attempt to follow the rules, just putting them where I have a specific need for them. I thought I'd compare 'reality' with 'codebook design."

Here are some of the trends I've discovered:

1) Nearly all the receptacles are mounted high - at least 30" off the floor, to serve equipment on tables or benches;

2) In 'long' rooms, each long wall has a receptacle at either end, with plugmold between. The short walls don't have any. "Dead areas" behind doors don't get one, either;

3) "Square" rooms either have all the receptacles on one wall, or on two adjoining walls, with the other walls left clear;

4) A surprising number of receptacles - in 3 of 7 rooms - are placed at ceiling level, to serve specific equipment;

5) Rooms are well lit, but the lights have tended to be placed in unconventional ways. Three rooms have the lights mounted on the wall; one has multiple, small ceiling lights, placed around the perimeter. What's interesting is that all thelights are laced so that they can light up the work without casting strong shadows on the work. I think we need to reconsider the traditional center-of-the-ceiling placement; and,

6) Receptacles with nightlights, and illuminalted light switches, are great.

While these receptacles are placed to temporarily serve, only during the remodel ... it has given me some food for thought. I am not saying the code is "wrong."
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/09/12 09:10 PM
Reno:
Yes, there are receptacle 'locations' that are mandatory, and 'code' spacing leaves a lot to be desired from the practical view of a lot of people. The >24" wall behind a door being one.

The lighting locations are 'choice', as all the NEC requires is a switch controlled means of illumination (my words, not verbatum).

I'll add, if you were here in NJ, and are working within an existing structure, you can use the 'Rehab' section of the UCC (5:23-6) and work around the required spacing for receptacles in some cases.

Posted By: renosteinke Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/10/12 03:17 AM
Keep in mind, I am not being critical of the code. Nor am I deliberately ignoring the rules. I truly mean it when I say that the receptacles I am describing are temporary .... they're surface mounted, and eventually this remodel will have every wall opened and compliant wiring installed.

I just had this random thought .... and I asked: since I'm just putting in receptacles for specific uses, as needed, how does this compare to actual code rules?

In a broader sense, I'm comparing what I am learning to our usual trade practices and conventions.

I do have a 'compliant' master plan, but that's getting installed one room at a time. Along the way, the entire structure is being rebuilt.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/10/12 03:22 AM
The 210.52 does not really address temporary wiring like this. If it is right at the final, you have complied with the code
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/10/12 04:00 AM
Greg:
It also has to be 'right' at the rough also, no?

Reno:
I read right over the 'temporary' in your OP, sorry! It sounds like you are doing a lot of 'temp' work to make your life convenient.

Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/10/12 04:51 AM
Yep I suppose I would expect a box there on the rough and it would be polite to say something if it wasn't wink
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/10/12 10:39 PM
John, I have a complete-to-the-studs remodel going on ... and the same place has to serve as workshop, personal housing, and cat sanctuary. A full plate, you might say.

Ultimately, every wall will be stripped, re-wired, re-insulated, re-plumbed (new plumbing) ... and a few will be moved about. The surface-mounted stuff is just there to make it all possible. It's a step up from extension cords.

I'm not using the existing electrical at all. Let's just content ourselves by saying it had served well and had a full life. (First two tested circuits failed the megger).

The 'temporary' wiring is surface-run Romex to 4-squares with industrial covers. Unlike the household wiring, this stuff has a ground wire. I'm pushing the envelope with my plan having me use the 'temporary' wiring for several years, as the remodel progresses. One room at a time ....
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 01:31 AM
Good things come to those who are patient. One room at a time.

Your plan sounds like a plan!! FYI, there's a SFD that had the permit issued in 2004 for a redo & addition, & it's still a work in progress, albeit slowly.
Posted By: George Little Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 02:16 AM
Reno brings something that I have had on my mind regarding placement of receptacles. If nobody minds, I'd like to ask a question about having a peninsular counter about 12 feet long separating the kitchen from the family room. If we are to install kitchen countertop receptacles vertically facing the kitchen, due to a raised step type counter which also serves as a snack bar, do we also have to install receptacles lower down on the family room side to serve the "wall space" created by the peninsular counter top? There are bar stools located on the family room side.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 04:30 AM
George:
The key is how much 'overhang' is on the family room side with the bar stools?
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 04:30 AM
George:
The key is how much 'overhang' is on the family room side with the bar stools?
Posted By: George Little Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 05:04 PM
John, the countertop is 18" and extends beyond the base cabinet about 12" allowing for bar stools and knee clearance.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 05:15 PM
By the book? I see that area requiring a receptacle.

"Convenience" receptacles can be anywhere from floor level to 5'5" up. Receptacles serving the countertop have to be within a foot of the counter top, and you're not allowed more than 6" overhang.

It's a bit of a leap of logic, but I see this as inferring a limitation on the convenience receptacle placement - it can't be within a foot of the counter level.

What if there's a 'bar rail' or foot rail? Does it now become 'furniture,' like a built-in bookcase, that does not get included in the placement rule? It just might.

Also, depending on the placement of the bar, I might consider the area as part of a hallway, with different spacing requirements. Of course, that opens a whole new paradox, as the bar area would otherwise be required to be both AFCI protected and on an SABC.

Don't you love it when code gets into design?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Receptacle Spacings Revisited - 10/11/12 06:26 PM
George, in a similar situation I ended up with 2 and I find I am using both of them.

It is better to have a receptacle and not use it than to need one and not have it.

I do think you need to follow the living room rule on the living room side.

I have had a renovation project going on here since 1984. wink
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