ECN Forum
Posted By: Yoopersup Hot Tub Connections - 09/17/09 09:37 PM
I haven't hooked up a Hot Tub in years. Someone asked me if a 240 volt Hot Tube requires 2 hots, insulated neutral & a Ground. He said by reading instructions it only requires 2 Hots & Ground ??? Since a White , Blk, Red come out I was sure be 2 Hots , Neutral & Ground .. Any out there hooked one up lately??
Yoopersup
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/17/09 09:59 PM
Cut to the chase, and run all four wires all the way to the tub.

While it's possible to get a '240 only' tub, most these days actually have you feed to a control panel under the tub. From there 120 circuits branch off to feed controls, lights, TV set, etc.

Better to run it and not need it - for now.
Posted By: Yoopersup Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/17/09 10:03 PM
Usually the feed to HOT TUBE is seperated feeder then branch circuits to outlets, lights ect
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/17/09 10:14 PM
You are required to have another receptacle anyway.

I have seen hot tubs go either way, all 240 or 120/240. I do agree with Reno, run all 4, just so you have some flexibility later. It may just be an add on feature you want.
The usual GFCI I see is 50a 120/240 rated with a neutral pigtail.
Posted By: Yoopersup Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 02:02 AM
I looked at the wireing diagram it shows 3 wires YET says it has 120 volt controls. I feel 4 wires also but Listing & labeling of manufactor says 3.interesting hey.
Also I know outlets required just doesn;t come off feeder to hot tub controls under HW.
The HT does have GFI with neutral also.

Anyone else run into this??
Name plate says Sweetwater Palermo
230 VAC 3-wire connection
(60HZ).
Yoopersup
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 02:14 AM
Hmmmm.....

I would look really good at the wiring diagram. 120 volt controls, perhaps a control xfr within the tub control panel?

Whatever, I would run 2 hots, 1 neutral, 1 ground. All that I have seen around here are 4 wire units. 50 amp & the occasionall 70 amp.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 02:24 AM
Youpersup, if you're saying that thse other things around the tub are usually / should be on separate circuits, I agree.

I suggest you visit a tub showroom, though. You would be simply stunned at what comes 'built in' to some of the upscale models. The last one I installed had all the bells and whistles - even the built-in TV set!
Posted By: Yoopersup Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 02:35 AM
Thats SCARYYYYYY.
Posted By: Yoopersup Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 02:51 AM
http://spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/wiring-hot-tub-spa.htm\
Check it out not to bad, cpl mistakes but overall OK.
Posted By: WESTUPLACE Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 05:12 AM
I have run into several of these tubs that had marked 240v 3 wire that were in fact 120/240. One customer had a 240v ckt with ground, the tub was 120/240, told the customer he needed a new ckt. He called the tub manuf. the guy on the phone told me to just hook the white and green together. I walked away from that job because I would not do it.
Posted By: macmikeman Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 06:03 AM
Now this post has no kidding around on my part. The largest maker of hot tubs has plenty of models that do not use a neutral conductor. And there is no place in the control box to land one. They are 240 volt units not 120/240. You will need to land a neutral at the disco from the source in order for the proper function of the gfi 2 pole breaker but it is clearly stated in the installation booklet to not install a neutral conductor from the disco out to the tub.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 02:18 PM
"but it is clearly stated in the installation booklet to not install a neutral conductor from the disco out to the tub."

Yes, it's time to actually read the install book (mfg instructions)
Posted By: Yoopersup Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 08:25 PM
I can understand if the Hot Tub has its own control transforer for 120 volts,then a straight 240V feed, BUT if theres no control transformer & 120 volt controls then I;d say neutral is required.
Posted By: Ann Brush Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/18/09 10:41 PM
I had one put in last year. 4 wire 240/120 system fed from a 240/120 50A GFCI /w neutral pigtail. Careful/proper installation now will pay off and prevent nuisance tripping on the GFCI later.
Posted By: George Little Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/19/09 08:52 PM
I've seen some rather confusing issues with GFCI's on tubs and spas. If the specs say 240v. then it does not require anything but two phase wires and a equipment ground wire. If the specs say 120/240v. than the circuit needs to have a grounded conductor (neutral) and two phase conductors and EGC. If the specs say 240/120v. then spa will require a 3 phase with neutral circuit w/EGC. Yes they have 3 phase equipment out there. The 3 phase equipment is European and they have a GFCI system built in that monitors each of the phases.To my knowledge they do not make a 3 phase GFCI breaker.

As for GFCI breakers, my experience is that the GFCI monitors current going out v. current coming back. All conductors go through the toroid coil, including the neutral, if the breaker has the ability to monitor the neutral the pig tail is connected to the neutral buss and if the breaker is not able to monitor the neutral you won't have a pigtail and this type of breaker would not be suitable for a spa that requires a neutral. However, A breaker that has a pigtail can be used on a "240v. only" spa and nothing needs to be connected to the neutral terminal on the breaker. The pigtail still gets connected to the neutral buss of the panel (not sure on this last point).

What have you found Greg?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Hot Tub Connections - 09/19/09 11:24 PM
In anything but commercial the normal thing I have seen was the 50a 120/240 GFCI breaker feeding the spa, usually a skid pack and an in ground spa. In some of my wife's mini mansions they had the spa integrated with the pool and there might be a couple GFCI circuits feeding this. One for the pumps and one for the 5 ton heater. The valve farm in some of these combo units looks like the plumbing on the space shuttle with a computer running a half dozen (or more) Jandy 2440 valve actuators particularly if there is also a solar array.
I have also seen "listed" self contained units that I never understood how actually got listed. Things like low voltage control panels and sound systems right in the rim of the spa. I suppose they are compliant to 680.22(D) but I am not sure why. They seem to all have early end of life failures from water intrusion.
© ECN Electrical Forums