Okay gang- I rarely see a permanently installed swimming pool that is installed above ground. Here's the picture, vinyl liner, and steel wall with support members around the perimeter. The question that come up is: do I need a "Perimeter Surface grid" extending out 3 feet from the pool. If I do, what would be acceptable? If I understand correctly, and that might be the problem, the purpose of the perimeter surface grid is for the people setting on the edge of the pool and dangling their feet in the water exposing their bod to a difference of potential. Pretty hard to do with an above ground pool.

Greg- What do they do in the bikini State?

680.26(B)(2)

George:

An above ground pool under '05 requires the grid...IF there is conductive materials around the pool. Grass & dirt don't count. (That's DCA, not my opinion)

If cement/concrete then steel rebar/welded wire mesh/copper 12x12. If 'pavers' then Cu 12x12 on top of sub-base only, or a 'rough' concrete sub-base with the grid in that.

So, if it's wood, Trex, dirt/sand nothing.

When we go to '08 (October 1, 2009 mandatory date) the '08 version of the equipotential grid will be required.

PS: I have not seen an AG pool with a grid yet. AS to your 'hanging off', I think it's more for standing an 'grade' and reaching in.

Don't forget the TR/WR/GFI protected, Bubble covered general purpose receptacle.

That's the 'Jersey Way'

I haven't seen an above ground pool without a deck and we are just dabbling with the 08 but ...

The comment from the handbook



So it looks like an 8ga copper, tied to the pool shell 4 places equally spaced around the pool.

Here the AHJ has understood the easing of the grid requirements (from 05 to 08) to mean that the grid need not be copper, that ordinary steel reinforcing mesh is enough - even if there's no concrete, just pavers of grass.

John,


The last talk I had with Suzanne, she said that under the '08 code, you will still need the bonding grid even if it is just dirt/grass. Now granted under the '08 it doesn't have to be that 12" X 12" copper grid. A single #8 cu wire will be OK.

The last above ground pool I looked at had NO metal parts. The upper and lower track, and uprights, etc. were all made of plastic. NOW is that bonding ring required?

Harold the answer is in the last line of 680.26(B)(2)



The only thing you don't need is the radials to the pool shell. You still need the ring of #8 tied to the rest of the bonded items.

Ironically, the problem is CAUSED by non-conductive pool shells. Specifically, the PVC molded, and PVC-coated steel shells.

It is the insulating nature of the shell that allows a voltage potential to develop. What it seems we are trying to accomplish is the bonding of the pool water to the ground around the shell.

Harold, I think you mis-read my post. I did not say the grid was not required ... I said it was no longer required to be made of #8 copper. You can use ordinary steel reinforcing mesh to make the grid.

Regular steel mesh in the dirt around here wouldn't last more than a couple years.

Perhaps, Greg ... but that is one issue code does not address.

I did such a pool last Spring; my fear of corrosion was why I used a copper mesh for the area near the pool equipment, and steel for under the rest of the pavers.

The inspector was surprised; he had never seen a copper grid.

Harold:

Last I heard is/was 'not required on dirt/grass'.

What I posted above was from the last conversation with her. Nothing in writing.

Now, that I read Greg's post.....hmmm.

***shameless plug ***

We have closed for the ROP on 2011 and large areas of the country can't even agree on what the 08 says.

Is a 10 year cycle still so bad an idea?
How can you have a model of "input from the field" driving the code language when most of the field doesn't have time to read the last cycle when input to the next cycle is closed? They certainly do not have much experience enforcing it.

Greg- Thanks for the info out of the Handbook, I haven't gotten my '08 version yet but I will soon. I do see the sense of having a "Surface grid" around the permanently installed pool be it above ground or in ground. I can see where a person could be standing on the ground and having his hands over the top of the pool and in the water hence a possible difference of potential.

I think we've hit on a key factor, but one not recognized by the code.

That is, if an area around the pool is sufficiently inaccessible, or where it is essentially impossible for a person to sit or stand next to the pool, I can see the grid not being necessary.

For example, one of the local hotels has constructed a fake rock wall on one side of their pool, and these concrete 'rocks' - actually almost like stucco applied over styrofoam forms - form a sheer cliff face that no one is likely to ever be able to climb. Another pool I have seen has one side within 2ft. of the fence line, with the space filled with rocks and cacti. In either example, I don't see a grid being either practical or necessary.

I realize that the bond grid does not have to be the copper grid anymore. You can use the mesh inside of concrete or the metal attached to the pool if it is connected with stainless steel bolts and nuts. ( No sheet metal screws allowed).

Now the new thing I have been seeing is that people are installing above ground pools two-three feet into the ground. I haven't seen too many of them finished off yet. Don't know if they are using pavers, wood decking or how they are finishing off the area. I guess the area would have to be installed like a in ground pool and follow all of those codes.

I would say that the rock wall is a permanent item and the landscaping is not.
Landscaping can easily be removed and that 2' area then becomes a walkway around the pool,which requires the grid.

Digging a hole to contain an "above ground" pool? There's a lesson in there.

The lesson, I believe, is that the more difficult a code is perceived to be (either to understand or to comply with), or the more expensive (and difficult) it is perceived to be to comply with it, the less the code will be respected. Along with that will be an increased perception of the AHJ as 'the enemy.'

Also, of course, the more creative and energetic will be the efforts made to get around code provisions.

John,


Last time I talked to Suzanne, she said that under the '08 code, we will have to make the bonding grid in and around all pools and/or hot tubs whether they are on dirt or not. Unless the 3' around the pool is non conductive, (i.e.wood rubber, etc)the grid would have to go in.

If an above ground (A/G) was all plastic, I think we still need a bonding grid (or ring) around the pool that would go back to the motor.

With the In ground (I/G) pools. I have seen many times where they lay the wire mesh inside the concrete around the pool. The copper grid was only used when there were pavers around the pool. I have also seen a I/G pool with metal fins that were bolted to the pool which stuck out 3' around the pool. As long as they were bolted and stainless steel bolts, they were accepted as the ground grid.