We have not adopted the '08 NEC here in Michigan but I think it's close. I wonder what the LED lighting in clothes closets change has brought to the trade? I see it as maybe safe but somehow not very adequate.

I have yet to actually see one of these fixtures - and I'm the guy who proposed the change allowing them!

So why did I make the proposal? Well, I had two motives.

The first was that I saw a need for the code to allow for changing technology. That is, a new product existed, was safe, and yet was not allowed by the NEC. I could also see a similar issue arise, were someone to use fiber optics, the way they are in some pool lighting.

The second was a bit more abstract. Simply put, I believe that rules ought to tell you the end result, and not get involved in telling you how to achieve that result, or what materials to use. In some ways, I believe the NEC gets too involved in tiny details - which then leads to all manner of word games.

For example, prior code specified clearances for incandescent and fluorescent fixtures .... implying, by omission, that no other means of providing light was allowed. I'm sure that was not the intent; for a very long time, those were your only means. Even limiting ourselves to those means, a debate arises if you put a fluorescent lamp ("CFL") in a fixture that was intended to hold an incandescent bulb.

I wanted the code to emphasize the legitimate issue of a hot lamp igniting loose fabric. Heck, I can ignite a code compliant closet simply by placing a 'heat lamp' in a fixture. It seemed absurd for the code toallow me to create a hazard, but not allow me to eliminate one.

As to whether the illuminated clothes rods provide 'adequate' light, that's not for me to decide. I've seen far too many closets that are large enough to qualify as habitable rooms, with all manner of decorative or accent lighting. Some I've seen even have art displayed on the walls! I had already seen evidence of the illuminated hanger rods being actually used, so someone found them attractive. Besides, the NEC does not require ANY light in closets, let alone 'adequate' lighting.

I'm looking/waiting for some LED units in one of the McMansions....They love toys!

I think a good start would be for some enterprising "LED bulb" manufacturer to sell people on replacing that incandescent in the keyless they have been using in the closet for 30 years with a LED. You could sell a bunch of them on TV with a scary ad that had a clip of a closet fire and a family running around in a panic. People would be dialing 1-800-SAVEMYAZ with their credit card in their hand.
If I did house calls I would certainly have a box on my truck. That is a feel good thing that could make a buck or two for no real work.
If the code wanted to address this they could come up with an Edison base adapter (like a Type S or maybe just a type S) that only takes a LED bulb.

Oddly enough, Greg ....

I recently purchased some CFL's that came with some plastic discs on the base. These discs, which readily come off the bases, are intended to act like "Type S" adapters,and prevent the future use of ordinary bulbs in the socket.

Whether these inserts will satisfy AHJ's, or allow other brands of CFL's towork, remains to be seen.

Or try get European based socket in here for cloth closet luminarie that way they can not get wrong type of bulb in there.

That something to think about it.

Merci,Marc

One thought, abstract as it may be.
Why have actual LED bulbs?, why not a strip, permanently wired in?
As we all know, the LED fittings last for a huge number of hours.
With LED technology progressing as it has in the last few years, things like closet lighting could have a single strip above the inside of the door or for bigger closet, a few of them.

Just a thought, mind you.

Mike:
Get out your pencil.....design it....retire??? Or, buy your own chopper!

Mike, the product that led to my making the code change proposal is actually a hanger rod with the LED's within it.

It was - supposedly - intended for use as a decorative store display fixture, but quickly found its' way into peoples' closets.

I bought an LED light for my daughter's room a few months ago... and I'm a complete convert now! Sure, it's $6, but it only draws just 1W of power for the light output of a 25W incandescant, which is just terrific. Pays for itself in about 5 months. I'm going to get one for my son's room, too, and maybe buy a few as night-lights for the hallway.

I don't want LED lights in my closet today for 2 reasons:
1) The color of the LED is unlike daylight, flourescant, or incandescent, and definitely has a blue tint to it. Thus, my wife would complain insessantly about it being ugly, and not being able to match colors, and I won't want to listen to all that whining.
2) It's only turned on for maybe 30 seconds a day... I don't need a 10-year LED bulb. I could put in a 100 Watt bulb for 50 cents and it probably won't cost 25 cents to run for a decade. Technology should be able to bring the price down eventually.

I recently installed THIS LED trim in a clothes closet. I was amazed at the color rendering of the LED light. It was much warmer than a flourescent bulb.

CREE is one of the leading manufactures of LED products.

Chris

As long as it's installed properly, it can be safe. But i recommend to have a real electrician for installation.
closets

Tibuan:
Welcome to ECN & the forums....another west coast guy!

Do you have any idea what the ballpark for the cost of that LED recessed can luminaire do run for ?

Merci,Marc

I have had several LED type night lights for our bathroom, I'm very disappointed, the diodes heated up and got hot enough to melt the plastic lens of the LED "bulb". After that they seemed to wear out and the light emitted was very dim (even for a night light). I had two of them and both suffered the same fate. I remain open to trying again but something has to be different next time.

I think that is the problem any time you try to drive a LED too hard. If they would back off the power a little these things should last forever. Just add a few more LEDs with a little less current in each of them.
Sort of a "pay me now or pay me later" situation.
LEDs are one thing that should keep getting cheaper as they go. The whole "blue LED" (the way they get white) concept is really not that old. Red and green LEDs (a much older technology) are dirt cheap.

I fitted a couple of 1.2W LEDS in GU10 recessed spots in a short landing, as a safety feature for the grandchildren going to the bathroom at night, when they are just left on. I wasnt expecting a great deal of light, just a navigation aid, but it's pretty meagre nontheless and not a pleasant shade of white. And surprisingly, given the low wattage, they do get quite hot.

Now, although only of miniscule rated wattage when working properly- are they not a worse fire hazard than an incandescent bulb in certain aspects?

With the latter, the law and regulations and good old-fashioned common sense [about putting inflamable materials near a bulb and its initial location etc.] protects one to an extent. They fail safe when they blow either filament or support wires. A LED or a CFL however is a complex electronic device, built largely of plastic. Is it feasible for such a device to fail in such a way to produce enough heat, far more than the rated wattage and to start a fire?