I had some copper thieves cut all of my homeruns in a residential job I am working on. The easiest fix is to run the wires into a couple of subpanels. Most will be long enough to reach but the only place for subpanels is in a large walk in closet. I will be able to retain my working clearances and the nearest shelving will be 2ft away from the closest panel location. Anyway around 240-24(d) or am I looking at replacing all my homeruns in the house?

Only place is in the forbidden closet? nonsense.

Hallways. Stairwell landings. Garage. Laundry room. Kitchen. There is no shortage of good places.

Want an easy way to hide it? Place it where an open door will block the view.

Hallways are full of arched niches, garage was the orginal location, single story house, laundry room on the opposite end of the house. The layout of the house has all the bedrooms on the panel side of the house. The main living spaces in the middle and any mechanical rooms, laundry rooms, etc. on the opposite side. Do large walk in closets really pose that much of a problem? I have seen more combustible material next to a garage subpanel than I care to see. I would put the panels behind the doors to keep them from being blocked. This house was a bear for long wire pulls and really not looking foward to repulling all of the homeruns. Hoping I might find a grey area.

You could put J boxes in the closets and extend to the original panel.

The last house that I wired was a 400 amp service and they stole my panels (cut the wire just above the panels) and I contacted my local county inspecter and told him what I was planning to do. I took a smaller 100 amp panel and gutted it out and mounted it above the new panel and used this as a large junction box. I simply put connectors in the top and bottom and extended the wire. This was actually in the basement bu the covers that come with the small panels dont look to bad ( I just didn't remove any of the cover knock outs) Plassed with no problems
Chris

240-24(D) doesn't leave a lot of gray...it just says "no way".

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what year 240.24(d) was added to the code?
I'm constantly coming across fuseboxes, old XO and Zinsco type subs in entry, hall, and bedroom closets. Even in cupboards. It seems as though this must have been an accepted practice back when.

"easily ignited" has been in the code virtually forever but the "clothes closet" part was added in the 80s

Is there a stipulation as when a "clothes closet" becomes a room....such as size? Some of these closets a so massive they really become much more than a simple closet with bifold doors.

The inspector allowed me to make lockable cabinet doors with a face frame to cover the panels.

I appears "easiest" is the operative word, but why does "easist" have to be part of the equation?

You originally decided on those homeruns for a reason, so why should you let some thief change your entire wiring plan? Anyone else who looks at this job and see's this box of wire nuts will no doubt wonder what kind of hack did this.

It's your reputation and licens, I know it's a real bummber to redo those homeruns but you shouldn't be looking for shortcuts on a brand new wiring job.

Joe

I suspect that if the drywall is up the GC is not interested in starting over.

I had one today, EC added a sub....but it's in the WI closet! Red sticker. GC may frame another door to solve problem...or Sparky can move it.
John

Greg,

The words "Clothes closet" I believe was put in the NEC in the 1981 code book. I still have my 81 code book and there is a mark next to the word clothes closet.

Caper
I was still using my 75 book when I met you.

As a home owner / buyer I would insist it was redone as planned - I would be ticked that a work around had been employed on a new structure.

Greg,

We have been on these boards for a long time now. We have seen a lot of people come and go. There have also been a lot of changes to the NEC since then. Yet, we should never stop learning. I learn something new almost every day. (At least I try to!)

The pursuit of knowledge is a race without a finish line.

Someone famous must have said or wrote that!

If not, then it's an original one-liner by me??

Are you sure its a clothes closet? Maybe its a storage closet with shelves? Wink Wink! LOL

Ob

We have had that happen twice. Each time we just used J-boxes in the attic. It sucked but considering the circumstances it was the best option.

An interesting side note to this subject recently came up!

Under NJ UCC Electrical Sub-Code....
Translated into common english for clarity; this scenario:

Within a new mobile home (double wide, in mobile home site)
I wrote a violation for the panel being in a clothes closet.
(550.11 (A))

Well, low & behold the phone started ringing....under the UCC 5:23-3.16-6-ii NEC Article 550.11 thru 550.25 are DELETED.

OK, tail between legs, call owner, apologize, and sign off on unit.

Based on the above....sometimes a clothes closet panel location is OK.

It isn't just NJ.
Mobile Homes (AKA= caravans) are typically manufactured to HUD standards which as a Federal regulation superceeds state and local rules.
The HUD rules are in part 3280 of the Federal Registery.
section 3280.804(f) "The distribution panelboard shall not be located in a bathroom, or in any other inaccessible location, but shall be permitted just inside a closet entry if the location is such that a clear space of 6 inches to easily ignitable materials is maintained in front of the distribution panelboard, and the distribution panelboard cover can be opened to its full position (at least 90 degrees). A clear working space 30 inches wide and 30 inches in front of the distribution panelboard shall be provided. This space shall extend from the floor to the top of the distribution panelboard."
The basic rule is if it has a HUD label all you look at is the park equipment and the connection to the breaker in the panel in the home. I always note the HUD number on my inspection report. Watch for the HVAC guy that might put the ground on the neutral bar.
Note there is a bare #8 with lugs at the tail light end that ties the frames of double wide units together. Make sure they make the connection.
Many still consider Elkhart as the MH/RV capitol of the world.

Alan:
Thank you for painstakingly typing all of that.
Yes, the HUD info is recorded by me on the tech card, and yes, we do the service insp only, and the bonding jumper is also a 'ditto'.
This was the first unit that I came upon with the panel in the clothes closet. Bless HUD

I rode my bike down to Trailerville the other day to go to someone's birthday party. I rode by the park manager's house, and noticed about 30 8AWG copper jumpers with lugs in the back of his truck...

I'm still trying to figure out how much they pay Falls Township to let those shacks slide through inspections. A new doublewide up there has SE, yes SE cable and a #14 green wire tywrapped to the skirting as its service!

Sorry for the threadjack.

Ian A.