ok ...where can i find the section that tells us that bugle head drywall screws are n/g for mounting metal j-boxes. i was knocked down for using drywall screws, not panhead screws. the inspector cited 110.3.

You won't find it.

110.3 can sometimes be a "catch-all" to knock a job down...while no specific Article is actually given by the AHJ

I am specifically citing 110.3(A)(1)

Where was your box mounted?

pancake boxes on the underside of a ceiling beam for paddle fans

If this is a pancake box for hanging the paddle fan he might be right. I seem to remember that the screws for mounting the paddle fan pancake box are special (sometimes). If your just using a standard pancake box to junction the wires, the only concern I'd have would be the fill in the box. And since he knows you are an inspector, he's probably being a little bit anal and telling you "Hey, those screws are for drywall"

When I install a box for a ceiling fan I use the screws that come with the box ONLY! The box is fan-rated, so the manufacturer should send screws capable of supporting the fan. I have used drywall screws to support boxes, but never a fan box. IMO, that's an accident waiting to happen, and it won't be very long.

Drywall screws are hardened,so have very little shear strength.How many times have you have then snap off when running them into old dry wood?

Uh ya, maybe use them for mounting a panel in between studs, use lag bolts for fan boxes.

Luke

I always get a kick out of the mounting screws supplied with "name brand" ceiling fans. Know which ones I mean?
An 8 pound fan with 5" long lag screws to hold it up to the ceiling. However the plastic ball that fits into the mounting bracket looks good enough for about 5 minutes or 5 miles, whichever comes first. And the bracket is real cheap potted metal.

For anything bearing weight, such as a pancake box for a fan - use 2"-3" pan heads. Drywall screws are great, IMHO, for mounting boxes for switches and outlets onto veritcal studs, but I wouldn't subject them to vibrations while bearing weight - if for no other reason, just the small size of the head looks bad from an engineering stand point.

It is kind of funny that most ceiling fans are actually held up by the two 8-32 screws going into the celing box, even though we take great measure to hold the box securely in place.

If the AHJ cited 110.0 (B), then he absolutely correct, IMO.

If the pancake box is ceiling fan rated, then screws for mounting the box came with the box. If you don't use them they you are violating the manufacturers specificiations.

This NEC rule applies to all UL listed electrical equipment.

If the AHJ cited 110.3 (B), then he is absolutely correct, IMO. I know it seems a bit ridiculous but rules are rules.

If the pancake box is ceiling fan rated, then screws for mounting the box came with the box. If you don't use them they you are violating the manufacturers specificiations.

This NEC rule applies to all UL listed electrical equipment.

All of the ceiling fans I've ever hung come with 10-24 bolts, not 8-32. Now, some of the boxes are dual-rated for both 10-24 and 8-32, but for ceiling fans 99% of the time the manufacturer suggests using the 10-24's provided.

The manufacturer supplied hardware is often a couple of 8-32's. The better the fan, the better the hardware, of course, and you're absolutely right that some have a better mounting system.

Problem is, the vast majority (maybe 80%)of the fans I've put up over the years are supplied by the client due to "style choices" (read: what's on sale).

ShockMe77 is 100% on target about using the manufacturer-supplied hardware to achieve NEC and UL compliance. An AHJ will have a difficult time arguing with that.

See 422.18, 314.27(B), and (D)

Rock-screws???

#10 X 1 1/2" in the very least, if not larger. A big fan - 1/4" lags. A real big fan - 1/2" bolt.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 12-06-2006).]

Could be worse...

I've just come from a service call. The DIY "service change" pulled completely off the wall, as soon as the roofing crew removed an eave.

The panel, and mast, were attached with a handful of drywall screws, that penetrated only the vinyl siding and the soundboard.

In my opinion the only redeeming value of drywall screws is you can find them laying around for free (and you get what you pay for). I don't think they have the holding power to hang equipment. Galvanized deck screws are better but a pan head #10 is the most appropriate until you reach the threshold where a lag screw is needed.

I guess we could look up the design values in the National Design Standard for Wood Construction but ...

It is hard to install screws that are too small.

I really push the costs up on fans. I don't mind even paying upwards of 15 cents for decent screws.

Were does it say in the code that you must use a Fan box. The way I read it you need a fan rated box only when it is the sole support of the fixture.314.27 D
So if you used a regular steel Oct box For example and attached the fan bracket to the box with the 8-32s and also ran some long screws up threw the box into some good wood you would meet code. There are some pretty cheap fan boxes out there now. that basically do just what I am describing and skip the 8-32s also. Safty is #1 you got to know that fan is not comeing down so be safe and use screws other than drywall screws.

I just came upon a job where the boxes electure showed were used. In the box it is stamped into the metal to use the 10-24 screws, NOT the ears, to support the fan. Whoever hung the fans used 1" tek screws into the ears to hang the fan, AND left the bracket 3/8" from the box. ridiculous.

John P, I agree with you about the cheap fans and the poor standards that come with them, but the issue at hand here is this. If the ceiling fan manufacturer suggests using a ceiling fan-rated box than a ceiling fan-rated box MUST be used.

NEC article 110.3 (B) tells us that we must comply with "any instructions included with the listing or labeling" of any ceiling fan or electrical equipment. So if the CF manufacturer says it's ok to use 6/32, 8/32, drywall screws or crazy glue, that is the rule we need to abide by. I don't make the rules, I just do my best to follow them.