I had a discussion with someone at our IAEI meeting last week and I wonder what this group thinks about this issue:

If we have a 15 foot long straight kitchen counter that is 24" deep and there is a wall at each end, do we start measuring from the corner and have our first plug not more than 24'' from the corner? Or Do we start measuring at the front of the counter and have a plug on what would be the end wall of the counter and thus have a plug about 36" ± from the corner?

My understanding is that we measure from the corner.

George,
I'd say you start measuring from the rear corner and go horizontally accross the wall at the rear of the counter. And you must be no more than 2 ft. from an outlet measured along the wall line which means 4 ft. oc max. So a spot in the center of 2 receptacles that are 4 ft. apart measured at the front edge of the counter is the same distance to a receptacle as the front corner of the counter if the first receptacle is 2 ft. away from the rear corner. Clear as mud, right?

My first thought was that you measure down the back wall from the corner but 210.52 says "Wall Counter Space".
I can easily see they could mean the end wall was the start of the wall counter space, defined by measuring the counter/wall joint and you need receptacles in both end walls.
If the first outlet was somewhere out about a foot from the corner you would still be able to run most appliances as front to the front edge as would be practical.

"Mr Pythagoras, please pick up the red courtesy phone"

Greg I like your sense of humor. Now, if a receptacle placed on the wall over the counter is expected to cover the depth of a 24 inch counter and the distance between the receptacles is max of 48 inches it appears to me that placing a receptacle 24" from the corner along the long dimension of a 24 inch deep counter top complies with code. I would not think a receptacle would be required on the 24 inch depth of the counter.

If the intent is that you can use an appliance with a 24" cord anywhere along the counter, within a reasonable closeness to the front edge you will have a ~12" "dead zone" on the front corners if you measure 24" along ther back wall. Would it really bother anyone? I guess only if they wanted their toaster or food processor in the front corner.

Okay greg- I'm taken the gloves off. Using the "dead zone" definition you discribed, and you are correct, but you have the same "dead zone across the front of the counter if the plugs are 48" apart because the 24" radius arc of the cord length gives you the dead zone. I feel much better now and I'm smiling again.


(edit for typo)

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-14-2005).]

George Little ---

I agree with you.

Having a wife, I would point out "wall space" is different than some spot along the counter edge but I can see your point.

Hmmm......an interesting interpertation of geometry. I start in the corner at the 'backsplash area'.

I'm seeing more and more of 2 circuit, 6" o/c plugmold in the McKitchens. 6" above countertop, flush within the backsplash.
(Corian, granite, etc., all expensive, all tastefully installed)

BTW, 'McKitchen' is the $$$$$$ kitchen in the famous New Jersey McMansions. No legal connection with the hamburger chain with the 'golden arches'.

On a serious note...I start in the corner.

John

I'd go with the cutting edge solution. Calculate from the corner. Then, using a scroller saw with a <2 foot cord, cut the counter edge, as defined by the new outlets. I think the scalloped counter, with the sink/waterfall at its center, will make all the magazines.
Joe

I do believe this thread is getting a little silly.
The intent is to have enough receptacle outlets along the counter top to allow the happy homeowner to plug in their appliances from practically any spot on the counter top.
Unless your homeowner or the inspector is giving you fits, just put a bunch of receptacle outlets along the counter-tops, and let it go.
It really doesn't matter if there is 48.457 inches between the outlets, or if there is a corner of the counter where your cord won't reach. Move the appliance. It's portable.

[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 12-16-2005).]

If the cord is 24" from the back of the appliance, and the appliance is at least 3.725 inches deep you will reach the receptacles spaced at 48". (No I didn't really do the math, but I think my point is clear)

What we have here is a vicious ciycle.

Once appliance came with decent-length cords. Some felt this poase a danger of 'dangling' extension cords.

So we made appliances with short cords- that wouldn't hardly reach anywhere.

The next step was to mandate receptacles at spacings that just happened -imagine that!- to be the length of the longest appliance cord. Can't have momma using an extension cord, can we now?

I predict the next step will be even shorter cords....followed by closer spacings...etc.

Now, some designers figured the "trick" solution was to place the appliances -and their receptacles- in "appliance garages." Just pull appliance out, use, and return. No clutter, and a receptacle where it's needed.
Guess what? The code specifically refused to consider these receptacles as part of the required counter-top receptacles. Go figure!


BTW, George....if the counter were open at both ends, would that make it a "penninsula," and thus require only one receptacle for the whole thing?

Reno- I don't think open ends would make it an island or a peninsula as long as there was wall space to be related to. I read that we measure along the wall and locate the receptacles on not less than 48 inch centers. a wall space of 12 inches or more would have us relating to the wall space. IMHO. Counter tops separated by a sink or range top are addressed as separate counter tops.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-17-2005).]

John,

If one looks into the NEC handbook under sec. 210 on page 91 there is "exhibit 210.26" which shows the measurement along the back counter space. I am not sure if this helps or not. As for McKitchens, Gee I only thought that we were calling them McMansions and I never thought about the kitchen. What next? McBathrooms?