Should the inspector write you a violation for installing NM cable in FMC for an installation where the metal box is in a cold air return and the connection involved an angle connector inside the wall? Code reference 348.42 says yes, but why?

Are they are just saying FMC is a raceway system and you can't push wire through an angle fitting without taking the cover off. You couldn't do that if it was in the wall.

Just a guess

For a flex 90 in a wall, it is the same as having an LB fitting in a wall. That point of the raceway is not accessible. It is the same as burying a j-box in the wall.

I would want to know more about this box in the plenum? Is it allowed there under 300.22?

Romex is not premitted in plemun rated ceiling. It would be the same as running romex in liquid tight flex outside. Romex is not rated for wet locations.

This is a residential application and the cold air return would fall under "Other Space Used for Environmental Air." Reading 300.22(C)(1). Wiring methods include FMC and the contractor sleeved the last two feet of NM cable when entering the CA and terminates in a metal device box. There probably would never be a situation where the electrician would be withdrawing the NM cable from the FMC unlike a situation where single conductors might be installed. I don't see any safety issues here and I think it's a case of "The code says you can't put angle fitting in the wall so it's a violation"

George,
The 90' connector is not allowed for the reasons others have already listed.

My problem is why are you letting anyone put a junction box in a cold air return ???

300.22 (C) Exception; is in the book because a stud or joist space is NOT other space but is a duct or plenum covered by part (B)
Alan--Inspector

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 11-07-2005).]

Alan,

I believe that George is right about the joist space as being "Other space used for enviromental air."

The joist space is not a duct or plenum.

The definition of Plenum in the NEC says "A compartment or chamber to which one or more air ducts are connected and that forms part of the air distribution system."

To me the cold air return is not part of the air distribution system.

JMO, Chris

Alan- I think I indicated that it was a device box, not a junction box. Really makes no difference as long as it is accessible. In the case stated the wall space required a receptacle and the CA was covering several stud spaces and the receptacle was located in the CA. You also have situations where a switch ends up in the CA. I do not see a problem with using an angle connector for this type of installation and would approve it. No one has offered any reason to require a straight connector because the wire will most likely be removed.

Got to disagree.
That is why I have two titles:
Inspector & SOB. I think the second one is something about Same Old...
First, stud and joist spaces are connected to the plenum / duct system and are definately part of the 300.22(B) space. If you check the exception to 300.22 (C) the reason for the exception is because it is not to be considered anything other than a duct as covered by 300.22 (B)
Regular NM cable is allowed to run across a space in 300.22 (B). It is done all the time.
NM cable is not allowed to run the length of a 300.22 (B) space nor is a junction or device box allowed in that space unless designed for use in a duct or plenum.
The other space 300.22 (C) is for above ceiling areas and rooms that may have furnaces in them because some inspectors did not allow a return air grill on a furnace unless the entire room was wired as a plenum. That was overkill.
I do not allow any [except dust tight] junction boxes or device boxes in the stud or joist space used for return air. They trap dust and dirt in the boxes.
To solve the problem have the electrician {carpenter} put a length of 2X4 where the box is, from top to bottom with the top & bottom closed off and forget about any metal sleeveing on the cable. That way the box is no longer in the plenum / duct space.
Do not accept the tin foil cardboard as a substitute for the 2X4 as a way of getting the box out of the duct. The drywall can seal against the 2X4 with nails, the cardboard can not.
The 90' connector is still a violation, NM cable or not.
HVAC guys get it messed up all the time. One even insist that he always runs his thermostat wire inside the duct to get to the upstairs.
I have seen dust and dirt in boxes that resulted in fires.
Have your Code Panel respond to this at the next IAEI meeting. Or just ask Joe T.
Alan-- Inspector--
CEI-M #138 listed in the IAEI NEWS

Alan,

If you classify a stud space as a duct or plenum, as per 300.22(B) then the exception for part (C) would not apply, and you could not install NM cable in that space at all.

As for a device box in the space I agree that it can not be installed in the cold air return. Also the 90% flex fitting is a violation because it is not accessible.

Chris

Alan I also agree with George and raider1.

It is 300.22(C) that applies.

But wouldn't B still apply as it is still a "Duct", or "Plenum"? And, "specifically fabricated to transport environmental air"? It doesn't say distribution or return, just environmental. C says, "This section applies to space used for environmental air-handling purposes other than ducts and plenums as specified in 300.22(A) and (B)." I have always known this to be rooms and dropped cielings, even doors.

IMPO... 300.22 Does not say anything to the effect that it is "A", or "B", or "C" that apply soley to the space in question. But has added restriction on certain ones, and exceptions for others. Just because this "Duct" is made of sheetrock and lumber, and maybe a little sheetmetal too, it is still a duct!

I guess we can agree to disagree about whether the joist space in a dwelling is a duct or not but the facts of what wiring methods are permited and what equipment is permitted are rather clear when you read 300.22(C)(1) and (2). and then look at the comment in the Handbook. I know, I know but the opinion in the Handbook is close to being accurate. The commentary would have us not installing any boxes in the CA and only cables Listed for use in a plenum or in metallic wiring methods. Of course if we go perpendiclar to the air flow no metal wiring jacket is required.I'll have to change my ways and I can do that, I'm a big boy.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-07-2005).]

I don't think you want a device box in a return air "space" period. It will fill up with dust eventually because it is sucking air through it.

George,
The most important reason for inspectors to share information is to achieve consistant interpretation of the Code.
It is easy to get mixed up and most contractors would rather just do it the inpsectors way than disagree with the AHJ.
Few realize how much an inspector has to know just to be right most of the time.
Alan--Inspector

Alan- I would tell ypu that 90% of the electricians in South East Michigan have been installing boxes in CA returns for at least 30 years and then either boxing around them or using metal wiring methods. This BB has been a very good sounding board for promoting uniformity and that's why I stay tuned. The day we can't rethink something is a sad day for us as inspectors, contractors or engineers. Anyone that doesn't agree should un-bookmark this site. I'm not sure un-bookmark is a word but you get the drift

George, well said, and I agree.

I think un-bookmark should be a word.

Roger

Thanks George,
I have more respect for an electrician that questions one of my calls than one that just agrees.
I have been wrong.
Show it to me in the book.
"When I am wrong I change my mind, what do you do ?"
It doesn't feel good but, it forces us to be better.
Actually it makes me think about all those jobs where I was making the wrong call and I just hope that nobody got hurt as a result or that they weren't dumping on me when I was out of sight.
The AHJ is King. It is lonesome on top, but is is still on top.
Remember; If it was easy anybody could do it. And they wouldn't get the BIG bucks.

NOTE; Most inspectors are paid less than a third year apprentice. Yet they are supposed to know more than the Master electrician.
The Code stuff is easy for me it is dealing with what people do that makes me crazy.

I'm looking forward to retiring.

Alan--Inspector.