NFPA says Hazard Analysis anything operationing at over 50 volts . That Means Mcc's, Switchgear, Panels 120/208
277/480 & up and up. I take it that includes Panels and Equipment over 50 volts Period. Example PLC 120 volt feed??
fire alarm Panel. 120/240 volt feed.
X ray Machine ect ect. Where is the Break Line and where in 70E does it say the break line is?? NEC 110.16 Spells out where ist sticker goes . 70E from what I see Doesn't where second one is required except Fer Hazard analysis. 2008 NEC adds Electrical Equipment to 110.16.look up equipment in definations in NEC umm this gets interesting??

NFPA70E does not require any sticker/lables in addition to those in NEC 110.16.

70E requires appropiate PPE for all energized work above 50V. There is no relief.

There are several options available for determing the appropiate PPE, a full blown "arc flash" study based on IEEE 1584 is only one method.

All over 50 volts covers a lotta ground.

Yasure youbetcha.
Luckily, appropiate PPE is rarely a 40 cal "moon suit".

But Like lets say you open a Fire alarm Pnl/ 120/240 >
voltage test ist with PPE on??? Sticker on Box??

That is good question because if my memory serve me right most FA panels are pretty much current limited type.

Merci, Marc

There is no IEEE 1584 calculation for single phase circuits regardless of voltage so they are not normally part of arc flash studies therefore they rarely have a cal/cm² sticker on them.

If the calories or Hazard Risk Category (HRC) are not known you are only left with the 70E task tables. If the circuits are current limiting then you may be able to take advantage of the provisions that allow a reduction in the normal task table HRC.

How come the Wisconsin and UP guys are up at this time of night, don't you have to get up and shovel in the morning?

JBD.,, This topic is almost parallel in other forum as well but not the excat same sisuation but i feel pretty simuair what you are talking about the Flash protection requirement need.


speaking of snow i only got dusting of snow [ about 30 CM or so { 1 1/2 inch } but right now it kinda windy now just got back from service call not too long ago the road start to get icy again ughh.

Merci, Marc

PPE for 51V is a cotton shirt and dry hands, isn't it?

How many amps Steve?

50V circuits aren't typically fed from 3000kVA transformers. Are we talking today, or in 2011 when AFCI and GFCI will be required for all commercial applications to? Either way, I'm going to go with 4mA.

PPE is required for voltage testing, i.e., "00" or "0" voltage rated gloves with leather protectors, plus voltage rated test equipment. This also means the proper category. CAT I, II, III, IV. The closer to the utility source the higher the category instrument required for safe testing.
See NFPA 70E Table 130.7(9)(a) for Panel Board Rated at 240V and Below for PPE required.

50v at 100a will still give you quite an arc, perhaps more that "dry hands" will handle. I saw a guy melt a wedding ring, permanently scarring his finger at 1.5v.

If an arc flash study has not been performed then voltage testing PPE also requires a Hooded Face Shield. The task tables show this as 2*.

I believe with the next edition of NFPA 70E, face shields will be required for all testing with hand held meters.

WOW! About everyone here is in serios need of 70E training.

I will start from the top.

Yoserup, 70E requires SHOCK protection above 50V, not arc flash protection, refer to the LAB< RAB, and PAB's listed in the tables for the voltage you are working on. 70E does not require labels, as someone else mentioned, the NEC does (Generic) but the 2008 70E will require labeling that includes the PPE required or the Ei from the analysis on everything the NEC does.

IEEE 1584 says an arc will not be self sustaining on systems less than 240V fed by a transformer less than 125kVA (However some testing group disagree with this), so that means you do an analysis above that point and use the 70E tables below that.

All true, however, the 2008 70E will not have this provision because it has been proven not safe and is abused. I bet 95% of the cases were the resuction was used the person did not know the fault current available.

No, it depends on what equipment you are working on and which boundaries you are crossing but cotton shirt and dry hands don meet any requirement 9Sorry if you were joking about that)

Gfretwell. No it wont, but if you mean a 100A circuit the available fault current is probally much higher (Depends on the source) lets guess around 2000A, that will make some fireworks.

Niether of these statements are true, the PPE requirements depend on the charteristics of the system you are working on.

The only change in 2008 regarding facesheilds will be allowing a arc rated facesheild with Balakava to be used in place of the switching hood for HRC 2* tasks.

Back to my Main Question .
Ist off NEC requires 110.16 Arc Flash warning Stickers Only.
70-E a safety program which requires a Hazard Risk Evaluation, Which produces the requirement that the Informatin stickers be posted.Then it says Hazards over 50v require protection if Hazard Analize requires. Now Just getting Picky here . Panels, Swithgear, starters, Anything that might be worked on hot. BUT where does it stop and where in the Book does it says that it stops.
Read 130.2C in 70-E , it plainly states live parts operatoring over 50 volts.
Yoopersup

NFPA 70E-2004 (the one in effect now) does not require any stickers/labels/posted information other than what is needed to meet NEC 110.16. The next version of 70E is supposed to require labels.

Whenever you work near (the next 70E will say something like "interact with") energized parts >=50V you need to wear appropriate shock and arc flash PPE. This always applies, there are no exceptions.

You may choose arc flash PPE based on calculations or per the "task tables" in 130.7(C)(9). Most system studies base their calculations on IEEE-1584. This standard does not have any method of calculating arc flash incident energy values for single phase or DC circuits, so you are left using the task table for these systems.

Everyone should remember that 70E is not just about arc flash. 70E requires that all employers adopt an Electrical Safe Work Practices program. This program needs to address at least: PPE, maintenance, LOTO, training, and live work permits. I find it unlikely that someone can be adequately trained in NFPA 70E requirements by attending a manufacturer's 2hr seminar on arc flash only.

So your saying anything over 50v olts has to have a Shock Hazard Analysis??? (EVERYTHING??).I do not think thats the true meaning.
Next point I know I could not find where stickers are spelled out BUT 110.8B & 110.B1(a) REQUIRES a Shock Hazard Analyis to determine the Voltage, Boundry Requirements, Protective Equipment. If this information is NOT posted where a working can readily view it by the Electrical Equipment his to work on How is he to know whats required to meet 70-E .So Stickers are in a indirect way are being required or they"ll be a lot of LOST time and Production while guys look for the required Info. (Yes I know about the work permits, training , ect.)
Also every Company that Does this or 90% Does put the stickers on the Gear.
Article EC&M June 1,2003 Preventing Arc Flash Incidents,
NFPA 70E States WARNING LABLES ON EQUIPMENT required.
Where'd they come up with it?
Are there 2th Stage stickers on the Gear in the areas you work?? If not do you do an on site Arc Flash Analsis every time??
YoopersUp

NFPA70E "contains" the NEC, so yes NEC 110.16 is required by NFPA 70E. The next edition of 70E will have additional labeling requirements, so this discussion may be different next year.

For all intents 70E really came into its own as a "standard" with the 2004 edition. So any trade magazine article from 2003 would be based on the previous version which had drastically different requirements.

You are correct most companies do put arc flash and shock hazard labels on their equipment. However there are some companies that have had studies performed and then adopted a minimum PPE level of HRC=1 @ 480V for all electrical work unless the equipment is labeled differently (in many facilites this ratio is often 80:20 or even 90:10). Some companies treat NFPA 70E labeling similar to that for hazardous materials and confined space both of which also require training, work permits, and proper PPE.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any method, the important thing is that the in house employees are properly trained and all contract workers are advised of these safe work practices.

Well put, those 2 hr sessions just break the ice of the 70E. The 70E emcompasees many things as you said, many people refer to the 70E as arc flash oor how to work hot. One of the first articles in 70E says DONT WORK ON ENERGIZED EQUIPMENT, then it lists a few exceptions, followed by 100 pages of how to work safely on energized equipment, but the 1st statement is often overlooked.

Wow, thanks Zog! And yes, I was joking about the cotton shirt and dry hands, if that makes you feel better.

I was about 90% sure you were joking, but you never know, i have heard carzier beliefs on requirements.

Not that 90% of the people out there working 120V energized circuits hot are using anything more than dry hands, but we at least all recognize it's wrong, I hope!

But if there is NO Arc Flash Hazard and thats has been conferned buy a Hazard study , shouldn't there Then be a Sticker saying. ARC FLASH HAZARD ZERO. otherwise hows a guy to know right. Belive me its coming.